Help us, help you!

BUMP!!

Just had a tough and taxing session at PHNL. It wouldnt have been so had people remained PATIENT! Multiple messages will only delay what you’ve requested.

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Key words: BE PATIENT. Take a bow @Joe very well said. The expert server is for expert pilots, so fly and behave as such!

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You can’t bump a pinned post lol

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@Joe… MaxSez… It had to be said, good recap but two things strike me… 1. “Unable” is a valid response and should not be considered an invitation to a Ghosting as inferred and practiced widely. Instability, system malfunctions like flutter, terrain avoidance etc happen, it’s the nature of the beast. Controllers of any breed must understand that the Pilot in Command is the ultimate decision maker, Considering an Unable as insubordination is a brain fart. Most Unable Ghosts are caused by no Pilot friendly or explanatory command/responses in the comm menu’s.
2. GA/VFR consideration. There is no need for Approach to handle or vector a non-commercial VFR slow mover to the IFR Line up and a 8/10 mile Approach unless there is an immediate safety of flight issue. The majority of VFR folk understand the “see-be be seen rule”. Non-commercial VFR’s/ Visual Approach craft should be passed indiscriminately to tower when checking in. Tower makes the final sequencing decision and can fit the VFR craft into the flow as the situation allows, the new “Holding Procedure” is a good thing an should be applied, situation dependent.
Am sure my observations don’t fit smartly into your IF play book. But my opinion needed to be floated. Since 99% of the response thus far where atta boys. Bottom line at the outset; am sure you’ll agree to disagree. Just sayin…

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No, I actually totally agree with both points.

•The point I was trying to make with unable is making sure it’s used properly. Repeatedly saying unable because you don’t want to veer from your FPL will get you ghosted when it’s busy. Saying it when you’ve been told to descend to 7,000ft approaching Aspen should be a wake up call for the controller. It’s the misuse of the command that’s frustrating. Just as I know you get frustrated when some ATC misuse/handling of GA/VFR aircraft.

•This is an area we need to improve in, myself included. Having a 172 call inbound when I have a single runway and 20 lined up makes me cringe. We need a better plan than point them to the runway and hope it works out. That being said, my guess is 90% of the traffic we deal with is trash haulers, not GA. I hope this changes if more GA aircraft get added. Until then, there will be some growing pains.

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@Joe… MaxSez: Will wonders ever cease. GD we finally agree on something. “Do Good Work Joe, I don’t care what the Boss said”!
Warm Regards & Semper Fi

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i’m a little confused on the “with you” on an approach frequency… are you saying when we tune into an approach frequency we don’t say “with you” as our first transmission? or are you saying don’t say “with you” while already being vectored?

Can you guys give them an approach offset to the left or right a by a mile or so, then tell them to sidestep in last minute? Or is that going to cause wake turbulence issues?

This explains it for now

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Very well-written post that deserves a share and a big, fat like!

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Joe - On point as always.

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This is what I have been saying

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thank you for the awesome post. very comprehensive

Joe,

Workload would be further decreased if the developers removed the need for finding an aircraft after departure and telling them to change frequecy. A more efficient way is if the Tower Controller issues the command, “Cleared for Take Off Runway XX, After Departure Contact xx (Departure, Center, Approach, Frequency Change is Approved or Stay on My Frequency).” Also as a pilot after lift off in a critical stage of flight, whilst cleaning the aircraft for climb having to talk to the controller is also annoying and dangerous.

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Hi man, I don’t know how your suggest would make IF more realistic…
Of course “frequencie change approved” doesn’t exist in real life, because in real life has every (or the most)Airport a ground/tower/approach/departure and center frequencies but in IF we can’t open all these things for every airport (we are happy if we can open app/departure and center on FNF…) and the normally things how we handle this is like the real life…
In real life:
XXX request pushback
Puuuuuuuuchback (just kidding) approved
Xxx request taxi
Taxi to RW X (ok, we in IF have “contact tower when ready) this is a little bit different in real life.
But now…
XXX cleared for takeoff…
After the aircraft climbed to around 1-2k AGL
XXX contact XXdeparture on 111.11”
In IF we handle it the same… We give the TO clearance, after the TO, if we have a open departure frequencie we hand the aircraft off to this, or if the Approach controller want to handle these departures, we hand them off to the approach controller…
And if we only have tower and Ground open we give “frequencie change approved” because 3 reasons

  1. He left our airspace, no more reason to stand on our frequencie.
  2. It can be annoying for the pilot to hear the “tower talk”, because he mustn’t hear that
  3. He blocked a “flight strip” and it’s annoying for the controller if it’s get busy 😉

Very much text, one sense… It would be make IF less realistic, we handle it like real life.

I hope you can understand this (only because Iam German, and my English isn’t the best)

Seriously
IFATC Officer ChrizZz

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ChrizZz,

This is doubling our workload for IFATC. In the US and Canada on clearance to takeoff the Real ATC will give you a wind direction, next communication after departure and clearance to go. So I’m not searching for flights after departure or simmers continually calling back frequency change request, frequency change request, frequency change request…

Think about it and keep pushing tin

Rory, like an engine…got get them flying

Was on expert server yesterday afternoon being vectored in to KJFK and all was going well up until I approached the last VOR. Like Joe’s original post says, once ATC started to give me vectors, the only communication was to acknowledge the requests. It’s a wonderful thing to be able to sit back, relax and just watch and wait for your next input in to AP. The distance between the last turn to the final VOR was at least 10 minutes flight time, so I put my iPad down, turned up the volume and waited. On approach to last VOR, I was waiting for the next request, which would be a turn from right base to final…radio silence…I noticed another aircraft coming straight in, so I assumed I was being sequenced. After flying past the last VOR, with no word from ATC, I broke one of Joe’s rules…I radioed to ATC…“J0RDY…with you”
But there was no response. I then checked (which I should have done first) the frequency and ATC was no longer there - must have lost connection. That’s when I disengaged AP and took matters in to my own hands and got my bird on the ground. It was a very interesting flight 😂

image

Almost flew off the map before I realised there was something seriously wrong. LoL

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