Hawaiian Airlines Re-thinking Airbus A330NEO orders

Red the article… it says HAL is thinking on maybe Ordering 787’s From Boeing.
I would not mind seeing this though.
As much as I am A Boeing Fan i am kinda excited for the a330neo ( but i wish it would stop getting delayed )
but i feel we need to know more.
Like if they order 787’s when will they get them.
Share your opinions.
If anyone is good at Photoshopping i would love a Hawaiian B787

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The 787 has more range which would be probably a more viable option and make it easier for longer routes.

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Google is your friend I’m sure there is something there

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nope just checked.
Unless an a350 is a 787
but i mean HA was going to get A358’s

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The twist will be they order the A388 😂😂😂

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lol
i wish… then someone will finally do a non-stop HNL-LHR flight.
and more

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I think they should keep the A330s, replace the 767 and get the 738max.
Why?
They can use the max8 for flights to the Pacific Coast, or other Pacific Islands in the range of the max8.
I don’t think it is necessary to get new A330s and they should get sale the 76s.

That is just my opinion.

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nooooooo, I want the 767’s to stay.
Mistake number 1.

the need to just get a 777

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That’s almost their plan, they ordered 6 A330 NEOs to replace the 767, not the current A330-200s.
Plus they ordered 16 A321 NEOs too. :)

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i don’t like that the 321 is replacing the 767’s.
The 321’s should replace the 717’s
and then the 787 or a330 should replace the 767.
OR KEEP THE 763

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I agree, replacing an aircraft with 264 seats with one with 189 seems quite strange. Probably they are not selling good in certain routes.

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I think they should use this aircraft. In the future, when fuel is even more limited, they will run into trouble on long haul flights if they don’t get this aircraft in their fleet.

I hope they get the 787 actually! I’m sure if you google HAL 787 they will come up with something

Here we are. This looks quite refreshing.

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that’s beautiful, I would’nt mind having that

Ugh nothing worse than management that changes its mind all of the time…especially in an industry like this were the investment decisions need to be right 20 years from now.

@Blently @ORDspotter Technically (according to an operative perspective) both the A321neo and the A330-200 are going to be used as 767 replacements. Larger routes with more demand (like those from OGG) will be upgauged to the A330-200, whereas those with less demand will be “shrunken” down to the 321neo.

Right now, the current Hawaiian Airlines fleet looks like this:
Airbus A330-200 (24 in fleet, 278/294 seats) – International and West Coast routes
Boeing 717-200 (20 in fleet, 128 seats) – Interisland routes
Boeing 767-300 (8 in fleet, 252/259/264 seats) – International and West Coast routes

Hawaiian’s future fleet looks like this:
Airbus A321neo (767 replacement + expansion to smaller markets)
Airbus A330-800neo (767/A330-200 replacement)

Hawaiian faces the following problems unique to the airline:

  1. Longer flights: the A330s (especially in such a dense configuration) has issues with some of the longest flights they’d like to operate (HNL-LHR is one of the key examples).
  2. No 717 replacement: as much as many suggest that the A321neo could be a suitable replacement for the 717, the issue is with the engines. The 717 was chosen because the engines were the only one that could cool down fast enough to endure 30-minute hops with 30-minute turnarounds. Other aircraft faced issues when trying to attempt the same thing (Aloha’s 737-700s on these routes was a key example). It’s unlikely that the LEAP will be able to cool down fast enough, whereas the GTF has been shown to (possibly) be capable: if HA takes GTF neos, then it would be a possibility. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem likely considering the large number of LEAP operators.
  3. Being a unique operator: aircraft with only a few operators (such as the A318) tend to have all of the maintenance and unique components of the aircraft assigned to that carrier only. Although the 338 will have 99% commonality with the A330-900neo, it’s likely that there will be some part somewhere in the A338 that will have all the costs go to Hawaiian (or the small number of operators of the A330-800neo). This also doesn’t factor in low resale values caused by a lack of demand for the aircraft, another common problem with the A318.

Problems 1 and 3 are the most pertinent to the 787/A330neo decision.

With these ideas in mind, we look at the 787. The 787 presents the following advantages:

  1. A wide variety of types (-8, -9, and -10). These could be used for thinner routes (-8), longer routes (-9), and trunk routes (-10).
  2. Range: the -9 has enough range to fly to Western Europe, and can cover most of the globe.
  3. The ability to offer increased efficiency that could cover the entire Hawaiian route map, capable of both covering current routes and allowing for even more expansion in the future.

With that, we see the following issues with such a strategy:

  1. No real need for a variety of types. The A332/A338 size is perfect for Hawaiian’s demand. Yes, Hawaiian has a lot of demand, but not that much. Almost all routes that can be operated by a 788 can also be done with a 332 (albeit less efficiently). In addition, it doesn’t seem as if Hawaiian would even need the extra range given by a 789. Flights to Western Europe, although a seemingly smart idea as Europeans could fly to Hawaii, it doesn’t seem like a wise idea. Having a ULH flight with low-yields (tourists) never works, and although it has been attempted before, would make nothing but losses for HA (and that assumes that there is demand for it when Europeans already have many closer beach destinations like the Caribbean).
  2. The additional cost of adding a new type. Although the 787 can promise efficiency, it also requires very large upfront costs to prepare for new engines, new systems, new training, and new parts. Compared to the near-zero cost of adding A338s, the 787 would require significant investment.
  3. Paid-off aircraft. The A330-200 is a relatively new aircraft in Hawaiian’s fleet, and as a result, means that some aircraft have not made a return on investment yet. These planes have much more to offer before being scrapped, and as a result, means that it would be unwise for Hawaiian to dump more capital towards replacing aircraft.
  4. Increased capabilities from the A330-800neo. Although the A338 may not have the shine or newness of the 787, it offers some of the best costs per seat and with an increasing MTOW can operate most of the routes the 787 can without the increased costs of adding a new type.
  5. Capital already turned over. Hawaiian’s A330neo order (stemming from a 358 order) has the challenge of deposits already being handed over to Airbus, along with the issue that order cancellation fees would be hard considering the first 338 is already in production.

Overall, it’s a mixed case. The 787 offers efficiency that HA hasn’t taken advantage of yet, but at the same time, the A330neo is a “stop-gap” to offer similar efficiency with a fraction of the price. Would HA actually convert their orders? It’s highly unlikely, considering that they already have what they need.

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I would not think of it that way. They don’t change their mind “all the time”.

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My 2 cents.

Here is the HAL Fleet: (Wikipedia)
A21N - 0 Aircraft -18 Orders
A332 - 24 Aircraft - 0 Orders
B712 - 20 Aircraft - 0 Orders
B763* - 8 aircraft - 0 Orders
*Includes both -300 and -300ER

The Airbus A321 Neo
This aircraft has the means to be a wonderful aircraft, it can fly to airports in New Zealand / Australia, smaller Pacific islands, Charlie or Delta airports on the US East Coast, S. America East Coast, the aircraft can fly as far as Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, and many other airports.
It would be a key aircraft to fly from Honolulu and smaller Hawaiian airports like Maui. It would be key to give some direct flights to cities like St. Louis, and other airports where a widebody simply couldn’t be sustained. In the long run, it would be better to order at least 10-20 more, it would be perfect to expand into smaller cities.

Boeing 717-200
There are only 20 HAL 712s in their fleet. It would be most logical, for the expansion of Hawaiians inter-island fleet to end the contract with Empire on the Hawaiian subsidiary 'Ohana. With the contract ended, and the 712s should be phased out soon. Delta has a fleet of 93 712s, provided Delta is currently phasing out the MD88s if Delta, or any other airline, could acquire 20 712s and quickly phase out 10-20 MD88s with worse efficiency. Then Hawaiian could acquire 20-25 CS100 aircraft from Bombardier. These would offer greater efficiency and could operate more routes within Hawaii.

Widebodies (B763, A332)
There are two options I see here.

  1. There are 6 orders for the A338s, with eight 767s left in the Fleet they could order 2-10 more A338 aircraft, that would give expandability to expand to the Asian market, Western Australia, Mexico, S. America, and even S.E. Asia and India. This would be good for a quick fix to the expansion.
  2. Delta (Delta again, lol) has orders for 25 A338s, they are notorious for ordering old aircraft to save a buck. If Hawaiian could sell their A333s and possibly B763s to Delta (if Delta doesn’t want the 763s scrapyard it is) they could then place a massive order For 30-40 aircraft, Boeing 787-9s would be a perfect choice. It offers the Pass. Cap. and range. This would offer long-term expandability to the Asian, Australian, S. America, African, and even the European market.

Hawaiian Airlines has a lot of choices for them in the future. What they decide to go with will show their business goals in the future, they should work with airlines to good deals and sell off even their even mid-age aircraft to get the newest most efficient aircraft in the market at the minute.


I disagree, any airline will choose what is best. If Boeing is selling the aircraft with a good deal, Hawaiian will take it. Canceling an order for a more efficient aircraft with better expandability in the future, that is what any logical airline would do. You are right, airlines need to be right 20 years from now, which is exactly why they would change their mind or rethink situations for the best deal they will.

They really don’t. Hawaii has many other airlines flying into it, and no one route would pull enough demand to make the 777 worth the extra cost, less efficiency, and more range (which doesn’t mean anything because the 787 can fly basically everywhere from Hawaii the 777 isn’t needed) The 787 would be better than the 777 for Hawaiian’s future expansion.

Go smash that 787 order Hawaiian! They deserve these new airliners. They would have a chance to update their cabins. And let’s not forget the awesome new passenger comfronts including dimmable windows and a more humid cabin. The livery looks great on the 787 as well. To me the A330neo is a last attempt to sell a wide body that is slowly getting old. As far as I know it only has a slightly updated cockpit and new engines.

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