I think its very sad how quickly you often get reported. Sometimes it’s enough to focus on one instruction and maybe miss the second one, and you already get hit with a report.
I often feel that the new ATC managers, who have only been in this position for a few months, are just waiting to find a mistake in order to report as quickly as possible.
I mean, no one works their way up to the Expert Server just to intentionally make mistakes or annoy the ATC crew. I also believe that ATC is actually there to help guide an aircraft during landing or to give a reminder when a mistake happens — not to punish right away. Especially considering we all pay money for this game.
A little more leniency with small mistakes, a bit of kindness and willingness to help instead of punish — that would already make the world a slightly better place.
This is not the case. At the end of the day, there are rules to follow on Expert Server. If they see something that is in blatant disregard of the rules, they will report. Unlike when controlling as active ATC, supervisors acting as pilots at the airport cannot warn before they issue reports.
The fact we pay for the game is not an excuse or a reason why reports shouldn’t be issued. In the majority of cases we will issue a warning but in situations where a mistake has caused interference with another aircraft - that’s a case for issuing a report with no warning (for example entering a runway without permission with an aircraft on short final).
Also, if you do not follow the ES rules or simply disregard the controllers’ instructions, that often leads to an increased workload for us, as we are now having to put more focus on the aircraft that isn’t following instructions, and it draws our attention away from the rest of the radar, and you may also ruin someone else’s realistic experience by doing so.
Before joining the Expert Server, it is always suggested that you read the User Guides and tutorials to avoid getting reported. We see a lot of people who transition from the Training to the Expert Server and think they can do whatever they want. The violation system is there for you to learn from your mistakes and to avoid having people doing whatever they want, otherwise, the Expert Server would just be another Casual Server. Violations shouldn’t be viewed as punishments, but as learning experiences.
I think they do an excellent job and are always open to discuss reports etc, as far as their strictness I think that more often than not, they’re not strict enough. I’ve been flying on the expert server for I don’t know how long and the quality of flying is not what it used to be.
Ive never heard of IFATC being this strict, and doubt it occurs frequently enough for it to be an issue.
They have no incentive for this. Reporting someone is extra workload in terms of potential appeals etc. so I highly doubt they’re waiting to find a reportable instance.
As I said above, the quality of pilots on expert server is worse compared to years ago. Work hard (i.e. grind experience)= Enough XP for expert server is an equation that doesn’t mean the pilots are of quality.
This is often the case and comes in terms of “please see user guide for help with using ATC” etc. It is then YOUR job to read and learn, not the ATC’s job to teach. Also, if JFK is dealing with 200 arrivals, there is no time to babysit everyone. The ATC controller AND the pilot need to concentrate and perform.
To be honest, I see the good intentions behind your appeal, but maybe the expert server just isn’t for you. If you familiarise yourself with the user guide, and gain some experience on the TS (or at less busy airports on ES), ATC communication is a smooth process and IMO quite an enjoyable part of flying.
Tbh I somehow agree with OP, I had a friend who was cruising with me to a ATC controlled airport and they got reported during cruise a couple minutes after checking in with center frequency for loss of separation with another aircraft
Breaking separation with another aircraft (without being part of a formation flight/flight of X) is grounds for an immediate report without any warning. It’s also the pilots responsibility to maintain separation with other aircraft, particularly before entering controlled airspace.
I agree that it’s the pilots responsibility to maintain separation with another aircraft but do you mean that it is standard procedure to be reported at cruise level when one may be inactive after checking in? (I dont know what considerations goes behind it)
the OP said leniency for SMALL mistakes while this is quite a big mistake. Newer IFATC may see the report button and be trigger happy for any small pilot error and i think this is what the OP is referring to.
100%, you should read the user guide before jumping on ES, but mistakes happen even with veterans. Most definitely if these pilot errors are affecting traffic or increasing your workload as ATC, instant report and move on. as for the small mistakes the OP is referring to, leniency can be given as i do with a lot of pilots.
Controllers are expected to exercise patience during controlling, which is written clearly in our ATC manual. I just can’t understand those trigger happy persons
If you’re so flawless, then why are you holding your phone at home all the time instead of sitting in a real airplane, if you’re supposedly so perfect?
At the end of the day, we should stay grounded in reality and remember that we’re in a game, not real life. We should point out mistakes, not punish — that’s what i mean
I think it doesn’t hurt anyone to kindly point out a mistake or to ask a player again, for example, to slow down to 180 knots if they didn’t do it the first time. No one does it on purpose and people can sometimes mishear things unintentionally, for example, because they’re focusing on their altitude at that exact moment.in and it doesn’t harm anyone.
I see what you’re saying, but I think it varies a lot based on the controller. There are some people who really do feel like they’re just sitting there rubbing their hands together just waiting for you to mess up so they can dish it out, but this also seems to be not the norm for most controllers. In situations I’ve had with friends getting reports from these controllers they tend to be reversed if you chuck in an appeal as long as the airspace isn’t horribly busy.
And I doubt you’d get reported in 3 seconds for not following instructions, if you want to make that claim then share your replay via https://sharemyinfiniteflight.com/ in this thread so the community can see the evidence. If you’re being truthful then that’s an easy appeal to win.
A violation does both, and that’s a great thing. You’re flying with other people around, for the most part “professionally” so you must respect them.
As for the money aspect, the people you interfere with also pay, and they surely do not pay for you to bust separation or taxi though grass in front of them…
Violation works like this:
You do bad > you earn bad
Agree 100% Unless a pilot is blatantly disregarding instructions and impacting on other users enjoyment, i will always use the warning system which usually does the trick.
Hello, I agree with you as IFATC, but I don’t agree either because there were some rules to be followed on the expert server, usually if they don’t make a big mistake, we have to violate situations such as getting up without permission, getting up without permission or trying to crash into a plane, not discriminating, for example, I don’t remember which airport a pilot wanted to land at which airport 24L runway but Başka Yaklaşım was working with a friend I was working with a friend I asked him not to let him not to land on 24L, I didn’t give him permission to land, I told him to connect 3 times, although I sent a warning, it was no more than 2 times, but it came to the short final, I had to violate, sometimes the pilots really push their luck a lot. To summ up, Yes, some ATCs can be a rapid
I was told to turn to a heading, and right after that, I was told to reduce to 180 knots. I focused on turning to the correct heading and, by mistake, didn’t do both at the same time — I wanted to complete the turn first and then adjust the speed. In my opinion, getting a report before I had even finished the turn was unnecessary but ok, why not.
Everything every one has said prior to this is true and are valid points.
It does vary per controller and some do report for little things. Just like in real life some controllers are more strict and will give pilots a number to call for discussion if they haven’t reported it already to the faa as well etc. just like the appeals process as gives opportunity for both sides of the story and if makes sense the appeal would be removed. Just make sure to file the appeal in time.
Speed and turn can have an affect on separation so if not paying attention to the map could have been part of the reasoning for the quicker report.
But as ifatc, and just based on the statement, we aren’t all quick to report nor is that our main intention as bennyboy mentioned. I for example give warning probably at least 3 times before a report, and have people tell me standby at hubs and busy times and all kinds of unprofessional piloting. I am not saying that is you but at the same time to some being “quicker” to report there are many that are also tooooo lenient and do not report quickly even when a pilot deserves it and is clearly not listening. Some ATC give too much benefit of the doubt and we assume you may not be getting the message for example etc. There are pilots that do not understand what a “line up and wait” even is and just continue holding short and move only when cleared for TO when holding up an entire line at a featured airport.
ATC in the end definitely tries its best and does not have the intention to target a pilot or intentionally report them quickly but also why appeals was established so both sides can be heard and a common understanding can be attained.
