Handover rules of radar guidance

ATC
#1

Recently, when I was flying to es server, I asked the controller for radar guidance during the approach. After permission, I found an obvious problem, that is, they were all on the extension lines on four or five sides (blind landing was not intercepted here, and even the glide slope was not intercepted). Based on this problem, I consulted the relevant information and consulted the controllers, real controllers and pilots at the end of the tour, The answer is that it can only be handed over after intercepting the blind landing. Here, I would like to ask ifatc why it will be handed over before the blind landing

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Regulation support

China: radar guidance is written in Section 6 of the air traffic management rules for name aviation

Abroad: no suitable information has been found at present

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#2

I haven’t found the ATC manager to make a complaint. I haven’t found the result yet

#3

Firstly, I believe this should be in the ATC category.

The easiest answer I can give is that IFATC are not fully realistic when in comparison to IRL operations. Especially those of individual countries; we are volunteers playing a game, whilst we like to be realistic where possible, we still have to make it inclusive and “plug and play” for all users.

Hope this answers your query.

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#4

I think this is the problem of regulation theory and operation Thank you for your answer

#5

Were you requesting radar vector to an airport? In this case it’s perfectly normal for IFATC radar controller to hand you off to tower at four side base and five side final before intercepting blind landing ILS. (some vocabulary worth building) That’s how they do it as written in the manual.

If you want to have a more realistic ILS approach next time remember to request ILS approach instead of radar vector.

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#6

In this case twice, I checked the relevant rules, which is contrary to the rules, but thank you for your answer

#7

Which rules did you check? The relevant guidance for IFATC controllers is spelled out in 6.11 of the ATC Manual:

Radar Vectors are primarily used to put aircraft into the VFR pattern for an airport. Controllers should vector aircraft into a recognizable position (e.g. downwind, base etc.), and before handing over to Tower, descend the aircraft down to pattern altitude (see table below). When aircraft call in following Radar Vectors, Tower must issue a pattern entry, a sequence (if required) and then a clearance. If the runway which is in use has an instrument approach (ILS or GPS), Controllers can vector the aircraft towards the localizer however the aircraft must not be cleared for an approach, but instead handed over to tower who will issue a pattern entry, sequence (if required) and then a clearance.

This means the controller can hand you off without issuing an intercept of the localiser for the runway in use. As FlightGT alluded to if you would like the controller to intercept you with the localiser every time you need to request an ILS approach from them not Radar Vectors.

IFATC use FAA regulations as the basis for their procedures so comparing them to other countries regulations can only lead to confusion as they don’t incorporate all country variations.

Further details can be found at Introduction | Infinite Flight in case you’re interested.

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#8

I inquired about the specifications applicable to real flight but radar guidance. I also saw them abroad, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to put them here because there is no clear explanation

#9

Sometimes I have had great hand overs on ILS/ Glideslope but other times I have had to go around due to not being on ILS or Glideslope

#10

The first image looks like once you turn left to heading 160 and descend to 3000ft you will be perfectly aligned to intercept both the localizer and glideslope for the ILS approach.

I don’t know what the second picture is referring to. You were not in a position yet to be cleared for the ILS, if you were being vectored for an ILS approach.

#11

I think people might be missing the question. The answer is in the original post.

So it seems to me that you are asking if controllers are supposed to hand you over when you have actually intercepted the localizer. The answer is, yes.

6.10.5 of the IFATC Manual states:

The Controller must have familiarized themselves with the instrument approach procedure and be able to visually determine when aircraft are established.

We are taught to only allow a frequency change once it is clear that the aircraft is fully established on the localizer, so the controller in your images should’ve waited before sending you over to the tower frequency.

#12

I’ll reply to the first image since I was your controller in FMEE.

I remember perfectly that in Antananarivo center you asked for a Radar Vectors (RV) service 300 NM from the airport, that both the FAA and the IFATC manual for controllers agree that it is a purely VFR service, knowing that you had a established flight plan, that is, you could fly with IFR rules and you could have requested another approach that would have been more “realistic” such as ILS/GPS.

In “Roland Garros Approach”, the approach frequency, you asked for Radar Vectors again, to which I responded by giving you some new vectors, that is, your flight plan from that moment was not valid anymore, you had to follow my instructions, as the manual says in section 6.11.11

I left you in a recognizable position for tower, in this case, entering straight in to the airport and then you were already fully established with that pattern leg (Final), I handed you off to tower, to which tower responded with a new pattern entry and a sequence and the subsequent clearance, this in order to find your position on approach to the airport.

(As I also noticed in Trend, there is no need to spam the “Request frequency change” command, the controller is fully capable of hand you off to a new frequency, excessive use of this command can result in reports)

I don’t really see anything “out of the ordinary” in the second image, from what I see, it’s also a Radar Vectors service, so the same principle applies, approach leaves you in a recognizable position (in this case Right base) and then approach handed you off the tower, to which the tower must subsequently give you a new pattern entry, a sequence (if applicable) and a clearance, again, so that you can find your position on approach to the airport

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#13

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