Due to too low traffic, I’m moving this session. Temporarily closing now
@aatogamer
@kadengg
@Ywikiwinfiniteflight
@whyevenbothernaming
@JeppyG
@CaptSairol
1 Like
Opening now at LSZH Zurich!
It seems the servers will restart, I’ll still be here
@aatogamer
@kadengg
@Ywikiwinfiniteflight
@whyevenbothernaming
@JeppyG
@CaptSairol
1 Like
Hello! Thank you for the session! I firstly will be providing you feedback from how you handled me (OH-AAT). Then I’ll be providing info of some deficencies I noticed you had with the other pilots present. Let’s get into it!
Feedback OH-AAT
Ground + Takeoff
- you should be proactive with the runway crossing command, so I don’t have to stop my taxi completely waiting for the clearance
- because you used drag&taxi with a runway crossing, “contact tower when ready” won’t come at the end of the message. Therefore you have to hand me off manually after I cross, and therefore not give “you were already instructed to…”
- “line up and wait” is unnecessary. You can clear me for takeoff straight away
1st pattern
- clearance was late. Aim for crosswind/early downwind
2nd pattern
- “extend downwind” was unnecessary. There was no way I could turn in front of the aircraft landing with my current position and pattern
- “turn base” command was given way too late. This just wastes my time for no reason.
- “continue inbound” is not needed. After “turn base” you can just clear me and leave me be. Continue inbound is used when an aircraft is so far away that you don’t know where in the pattern you are going to put them.
- clearance late once again. Keep in mind to aim for crosswind/downwind
3rd pattern
- I didn’t get any sequence, so I can’t know which one I’m following.
- Neither did I get a clearance for the option
- I didn’t get an “exit runway” command, so I had to request frequency change.
Feedback: everyone else (from my perspective)
- you were giving unnecessary “line up and wait” commands to everyone. Keep in mind that you can clear anyone straight away if the runway is clear of conflicts
- when G-TJRA first requested inbound, it would be better to give them “enter right downwind” instead of left
- after takeoff you gave Emirates 5 an unnecessary “say intentions”. Not sure why. They requested patterns and you accepted
- “extend downwind” for Emirates 5 was unnecessary. They were already following the sequence behind me
- you gave G-TJRA the same “continue inbound” I mentioned above
- you should be giving the pattern entry + the sequence within the same command
- incorrect sequences towards the end for G-TJRA and I-IVAN. You gave them 2 and 3, while the correct ones where 1 and 2
There are some things that need to be improved but not bad overall! You got all the basic fundamentals and you will definitely only get better from here. I hope to see you in IFATC soon!
3 Likes
Thank you so much for this!!! I understand a lot more now. I understand the unnecessary line up commands; from now on will clear unless needed to wait
I understand the unnecessary continue inbound; instead, should I just give them the correct leg command and then let them continue on their own?
Emirates 5 is a complete brain fart. I did not mean to ask him for intentions, I probably got a bit disoriented, this is my first time handling this much traffic. But it was hella fun!
About the proactive runway crossing: usually I actually feel really good at that, but I had a hard time this time finding all of the right commands in time, and sweating about answering all of the other ground and tower at times. But you are right, I should aim for it to be before you get to fully stop
IVAN flew way too fast. This was hard to manage to be on the right sequence, as you already landed and it went down a peg. I should work on being faster in general and getting used to where all the buttons are found
About me giving you the extend downwind, this was only because it is my first time and I was not sure what distance I should keep between your guys (combined with my still-slow reaction time).Also, this is the training server and earlier today I had to micromanage a lot of people who did very weird and annoying stuff
Overall I felt very confident but now I understand this was not perfect at all. This feedback is so helpful for me! The rush I got from the sheer pressure was overwhelming, terrifying but also a lot of fun! Looking forward to mashing these buttons as fast and accurate as I can!!
Thanks ☺️
Oh. And about the ‘already instructed to change…’ - IM SO SORRY I didn’t notice it didn’t mention contact tower when ready at the end. I probably came out a total bully here. Whoops 😬
All an aircraft needs to fly a pattern is a pattern entry, sequence and a clearance. A pattern entry is given on either takeoff (make X traffic) or with a specific command (enter X rwy Y). After a pattern entry is given, the aircraft can fly the pattern by themselves. After “extend downwind” the only command you will need is “turn base”. After that the aircraft will continue the pattern as previously instructed in the pattern entry. Hence “continue inbound” shouldn’t be transmitted here.
Didn’t look too bad on my end. Seemed to mostly follow instructions. But I can never know from these Grade 2 pilots.
A good way to solve this is to give the crossing clearance right after the taxi clearance. You can also use the shortcuts to your advantage here. Remember to wait until the pilot reads back the taxi clearance before giving the crossing clearance though.
A tip: You shouldn’t be too worried about a message being transmitted on your other frequency. Finish what you were doing in the other frequency. Managing 2 or more frequencies really comes down to being calm and priotitising what’s important.
Yeah, these guys are really annoying sometimes. Shouldn’t be too much of an issue if you got the sequence going though
This is something we just have to be aware of. You will get used to it in no time though.
A useful tip: look at the line in front of the aircraft. That will show where the aircraft will be in 30 seconds with their current speed. Also you can almost always just take your time evaluating their position at a set time. Even in a busy frequency. Don’t try to speedrun this game :) Quality before quantity. Reaction time isn’t a priority when controlling – the ability to make correct decisions is :)
This is exactly why we discourage choosing busier airports for training purposes. The amount of pilots that don’t know what to do is not exactly good for training. Have you yet applied for IFATC? The training given you in the recruitment process is extremely helpful and will improve your skills substantially.
Nope, you’re fine! I actually expected it to be something along the lines of this ;)
Prioritise accuracy, please ;)
And sorry for the 2 essays😬
1 Like
Do not apologize for the essays. I like essays, in fact - Essays are the best-ays.
(No seriously this is constructive! Also, I am doing this on my tiny iPhone. May buy an iPad or Samsung tablet dedicated for this kind of stuff)
2 Likes
Gotta love @aatogamer , super detailed.
3 Likes
I know how this feels. When controlling ‘at our own pace’ at random airports at TS, there’s not much pressure. But I can imagine how much traffic you had based on the aato’s feedback and I feel like it’s similar to my first public open. I was panicky and I think my hands were literally shaking.
Yep. Exactly this! I’m you, in this part.
TBH I felt like I ‘know’ what I have to do even if I take the practical without training. But ‘knowing’ and having the capability to execute them are two different things. So here I am, training.
And the intention is not to put your thread’s spotlight on me, but to let you know that there are people here who are in the same shoes as you.
2 Likes
Opening now at EDDV Hannover!
@aatogamer
@kadengg
@Ywikiwinfiniteflight
@whyevenbothernaming
@JeppyG
@CaptSairol
Oh, (AAT, budum tssss) my hands were definitely shaking yesterday!
1 Like
Oh that took me 2 minutes.
1 Like
BTW still going to stay open for a couple more hours! EDDV
Feedback OH-AAT
Transition
- transition altitude was way too high. The formula for it is airport elevation + 1500ft (pattern altitude) + 1000ft (IFR separation) + round to the next 500, which would in this case equal to 3000ft (180+1500+1000=2680, rounded to 3000). 6000ft isn’t even in your airspace.
1st pattern
- on this approach I overshot the localizer due to my own misjudgement. However before giving me “check runway assignment” you should wait and see if I overshot and if I will turn back to the correct runway or if I’m staying on the wrong runway. The command itself wasn’t that wrong, but you have to be a bit patient and see the situation
2nd pattern
- generally you should approve all runway changes unless it interferes with operations (which in this case it didn’t). I assume you did this because the runway was so short. This isn’t too much of an issue, remember I was touch and go.
- when I requested change to 27R, you gave me clearance straight away. You have to give me a pattern entry (enter left downwind runway 27R) first.
3rd pattern
- not sure about the “say intentions”. You should just be clearing me and not asking what I’m doing
- clearance was once again late. Aim for crosswind.
- exit runway was spot on at 70 knots, good job on that one
I see you’ve improved from yesterday! Thanks for the session!
haha, good one
Also a heads up for @NicholiCannotDie, don’t report position on every leg, you should only do that on unicom. A heads up for @Figan also, you don’t have to give them a new pattern entry each time. You can for example give them a “already cleared to land, avoid unnecessary reports” (found in misc. messages) if they got their clearance already.
That’s all from me!
1 Like
Thank you so much for this continuous feedback!
I am a lot more confident this time, and i didn’t know a thing about what’s a transition before this session, but now I know!
Yes, I was worried the runway will be way too short for a jet, but wasn’t sure. didn’t wanna risk it
About the last late clearance, you are totally right and i noticed it too. In my defense I broadcasted the ‘I am sorry’ massage!
thank you again for the thorough math on the transitions!
1 Like
Hey! Im gonna do some patterns tonight, around 20:00 UTC, but I dont know when exactly. If you want to open…
Starting up a long session, come join!
EKCH
@aatogamer
@kadengg
@Ywikiwinfiniteflight
@whyevenbothernaming
@JeppyG
@CaptSairol
I think you’ll be open for a relatively long time. I’ll join later. In maybe 30 mins or so.
Yes, will be here for a substantial amount of hours! Everyone welcome but if you don’t obey rules then don’t come!
RP-C0114
Wow that was windy!
Ground:
No need to instruct me to contact Tower, you already did that when you gave me taxi instructions.
First Pattern:
- I was Runway 22L, I’m not sure why you gave me a right traffic, I guess that’s up to you, but when there are several planes flying right traffic you can get confused about who’s at which runway.
- And you gave me a sequence behind the aircraft on Runway 22R. No need to do that. Each runway has its sequence.
- You did not have to clear me twice when you said that I was cleared for the option (after correcting the ‘clear to land’ clearance).
- And yeah, clearance is late.
Second Pattern:
Since LN-WIN is on Runway 22L, after I took off, you should have given me a sequence “number 2, traffic to follow is on xx.” before giving the clearance.
Sequence first, then clearance.
Third pattern after runway change:
The clearance was late.
I’m not sure what I was supposed to be when told “fly runway heading” when I announced the G/A. It’s usually a left or right traffic. IFATC members can help with that.
Practice giving sequencing and clearance as soon as planes are about to turn crosswind.
After they read back their sequence, clear them immediately.
Man I almost crashed and got an overspeed vio. But that’s not your problem lmao