Favoritism from ATC

ATC
1

I want to understand why some aircraft/users get “better treatment” than others from ATC.

I have noticed this from my own experience and also just monitoring ATC communications with other users.

I have noticed other users always getting the right of way when taxiing. I have noticed it with pushbacks - deliberately ignoring pushback calls but responding to others.

Certain users getting multiple warnings “please follow instructions / please check user guide” but others get a level 2 violation without warning.

Just trying to understand why that is.

12 Likes
2

Are you sure it’s favoritism and not just how they’ve already been warned?

2 Likes
3

Yes. Seen a lot of it over the last few weeks

5 Likes
4

I have seen it before

1 Like
5

But IFATC is trained to handle situations like this if someone has more of the right away they will let them go first

1 Like
6

Hey @DaBreed, I’m an IFATC Specialist who has been with IFATC for a couple months now.

I’ll try to provide some clarity on the situations you have described, but more context would definitely be needed, especially for such a bold claim. For example, can you shed some light on a scenario when you claimed that ATC ignored pushback requests?

I am also assuming that you’re referring to IFATC members who staff the Expert Server, and not the ATCs in the Training Server.

However,

IFATC controllers have always been strongly encouraged by the Management and Appeals team to send “please follow instructions” and “PFI or you will be reported” prior to issuing a report. This has been iterated to us repeatedly in the form of reminders or community posts. However, some infractions may warrant an immediate report such as taxiing through others (lvl2) or entering a runway without permission (lvl3). That may explain why some pilots get reported without warning. Otherwise, controller discretion plays a big factor as well in whether a report is issued, taking into account traffic levels and the intentionality of the pilot. There’s been prior discussion about this on another topic, which I will try to link below.

ATC/Moderators need to clear this up

FYI, we tend to send “Check User Guide” messages to newer pilots who have demonstrated in some way, that they are not aware of how best to communicate with ATC. For instance, they may have changed frequency without permission or are not able to establish themselves on the ILS approach. Of course, many other scenarios but these come from the top of my head.

Hope this helped to clarify a few things!

6 Likes
7

Yeah expert server. I appreciate the response. I will try to save and upload those scenarios whether it’s with myself or just other users.

1 Like
8

Hey there! @kadengg did a pretty good job of covering the reasons for reporting, each has a different severity which may cause the difference in warnings you may see. IFATC try to be lenient and have pilots understand their mistakes without a report in most scenarios. However, if an immediate collision or otherwise severe separation issue occurs, you’ll probably get reported immediately (entering runway in front of landing aircraft)

as far as pushback and taxiing, ATC has a bigger picture of the flow of the airport. For example, it may make sense to have aircraft on the main taxiway not giving way to anyone, and those joining to have to wait to join the line. This is just to keep airplanes moving as best we can as a whole, even if 1 or 2 pilots must wait longer. Its the unfortunate tradeoff at certain airports where limited space exists

pushback is a bit tricky as it all depends on which message we see first. we can’t have 2 aircraft push back in adjacent gates as there is not enough space, so some people may wait longer for clearance than others. This is not meant to be favoritism, but just trying to get everyone in and out as quickly and efficiently as possible.

IFATC members are also human, we may miss a pushback or taxi request every once in a while which can result in a longer wait. This is of course not intentional in any way.

4 Likes
9

Hello…,

Ill speak for myself when controlling.

I try to be lenient most of the time by observing a gradation in my mesures

  • CUG: Check user guide and I send back the instruction
  • PFI1: Please follow instructions and I send back the instruction a third time
  • PFI2: Please follow instructions or you will be reported and again I send back the instruction a fourth time.

At that point the pilot received the instruction 5 times so I don’t feel bad to report them.

That’s when there’s room and time to proceed all these warnings.

Sometimes traffic speed and or proximity or any other variable can make me expedite the report but even then I try to send at least the PFI2 before reporting.

I don’t think it’s favoritism more than adapting to the time and space I have before the direct conflict occurs, which my job is to prevent with that report button…

4 Likes
10

I can vouch for this too, especially during pushback/taxis. Last week i waited almost 15 mins while several aircraft that requested pushback after me were approved before me, so i just kept resending the message in the hope the ATC would do approve my request. It was so frustrating i just left the session. It has happened numerous times but last week was the most recent. Whether its ignorance or favouritism is another question, it felt like favouritism since i sent the pushback request about 10 times and they didnt tell me to stop sending duplicate messages…

1 Like
11

Also if you want the video of that let me know! I keep all my replays :-)

12

I can only speak for myself as an IFATC member.

I try to do it as a first come, first serve basis but sometimes it just isnt possible when the airport gets super busy.

I still try to do it that way but it can easily become messy when people use expert IFATC services with 70-100 hours.
Not to bash on any pilot but they are the ones usually causing trouble.

Example: they get taxi instructions and with those are “change frequency to tower when ready”. Yet, i have it a lot of times when they still require a “change of frequency”.

As far as favoritism goes, I wouldn’t say it doesnt exist but i believe its very minimal.
I havebt experienced it myself and I am in IFATC.

Heck, I’ve seen mods having to go around, fly holds or wait just as long as others.

With that being said, I know it can get frustrating when you dont get your turn soon. One time i was completrly forgotten at the gate and i sent a request for PB 3 times (with a spacing of 6 minutes each).

I hope you’ll think of this as an exception and hope to see you at an IFATC controlled airport soon :)

1 Like
13

Yesterday I was obliged to divert because in KLAS no one answered about my multiple request of landing, I flew near the airport like 20 o 30 minutes before choose to divert and other 3 o 4 people have done the same.

14

I sometimes take som extra time to respond to pushback if there’s traffic other places that should be handled first

Or I’m just waiting another 10 sec for the aircraft behind you to clear

Give way I just depends on efficiency or if one drives at 35 knots I’ll usually tell them to give way

15

It entirely depends on the amount of aircraft there if its not busy they have the time to warn you however if its super busy they dont have time to go and warn you and coe back its always best to just fly as instructed

16

There are a couple bugs that could be the issue here one is that sometimes ATC can not hear your messages this happened to me a couple weeks back I was luckilc in a discord server with the pilot and could communicate that way however I couldnt hear one single transmission from them. Secondly there is a new bug where it shows ATC as present eventhough there is none at the airport.

1 Like