I was just controlling EGCC and a place went 380 knots at 400 feet through planes. I was going to report him but someone else did
As we seem to be getting off topic let me go back to where the discussion boomed.
Misha Never said that violations were coming, nor was anyone being punished. As a matter of fact I think thats explicitly explained when he says “we would have something in app too, and that’s where the complexity lies”
They want a solution that addresses the the “common sense” for fighters so anyone can access them, even if they have never seen the IFC.
I agree with everyone here, fighters are awesome, but a lot of this discussion is toxic and completely spun away from the original point of the topic. Let’s make sure we read everything here not just a few posts.
Actually, fighters do land at civilian airports all the time if the runway is long enough and Air National Guard units are also tied and/or share land with civilian airports. Martin State Airport near Baltimore, MD. They fly A-10’s out of there and also plenty of GA aircraft fly in and out. So @Declan_Mcgee was right it happens more than ya think.
As someone who flies the F-22 exclusively, I worry that careful and professional users such as myself (and every other fast jet pilot in Global Air Forces) will be negatively affected by rules intended to combat trolls.
I do support clarification of the existing guidelines. I do not support any form of automated speed violations for fast jets.
FJs, unlike airliners, partake in a wide variety of activities which may result in high speeds (>500 knots) being achieved. What constitutes excessive speed in this case should be decided by a human being, not a computer.
If I plan on doing anything which might result in high speeds or any form of confusion or misunderstanding, I PM the applicable controller(s) here one hour before I fly. I can’t do this with a computerised system.
Getting this right will improve IF for controllers and pilots alike, get it wrong and I wont complain, I’ll just leave.
I’m not asking for vios. This is not a feature request. I’m asking for clarifications on max speed under 10000 and supersonic flight inside centre airspace.
Have a read of this.
Since we use the FAA (US) regulations primarily for Infinite Flight procedures, the answer will probably be 250knts IAS or below at or below 10,000ft MSL, and 250knts IAS - M1.0 from 10,000ft-FL600. FAR 91.817
If you are descending into an airspace (50nms and 18,000ft MSL) you should be matching the commercial aircraft’s speeds, not exceeding 300knts IAS.
Alright, if we are going to go down this road then implement all Title 14, FAA/DOT FAR’s (1-199). Almost no one flies the correct airspeed for airspace in IF, unless you will receive a vio. Example: Class Delta Airspace:
Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500’ AGL within 4 NM of the primary airport of a Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).
I see 250KIAS pattern speeds all the time. My point is if we are going to crack down on the military aircraft in IF then it should be a uniform implementation across the board. Stop making the military side of the app the red headed step-child!!
No one flies the correct airspeed for the Airspace Classes because the specific Airspaces don’t yet exist within the app, so something can’t be enforced that is not there. You can’t expect the casual user with no real-world experience to understand Class G airspaces, etc. without guidance.
The upgrades to the map bring us closer to see all of the things that have been talked about. For now Infinite Flight’s Airspaces are simplified versions of what are used in the real world so to have set rules would be too hard to implement without in-app guidance as was noted by Misha.
I see people saying they will leave without knowing what will be added. To think whatever is possibly implemented in the future would not cater to the fighter aircraft community is a bit ridiculous. Each change is clearly well thought out.
In order to not get off subject, like the previous post has, I would hope that IF would reach out to the GAF community and solicit opinion before implementing something.
“Not exceeding 300 knots”
Airliner speed limti is 350 not 300 though (A350 climb speed is 320)
There is no max speed for any fighter anywhere based on a flight level. It is based on areas. It is not ruled vertically in general all over the world. There are many areas all over the world that are specifically for fighters to do high energetic manoeuvre including breaking the barrier of sound. By example the German Airforce does this over the North Sea with its typhoons. Below 1000ft MSL.
Fighters all over Europe fly at what you might call high speeds close to the ground. Even while you can expect Europe to be a congested and high ruled airspace compared to the rest of the world.
While I have an eye on all military movements in IF that I can get aware of my experience is that there a much more unruly commercial pilots then military. I have been taxied thru by a 747 KLM at Nellis, I see civil aircraft at military airports in IF on a regular basis, and the are even not able to make proper pattern callouts.
This was linked earlier:
It has all that is needed.
You can not compare fighters with a citation. Not in any way.
You skipped over the portion that said the word “descending”.
May be this has to be thought over as well. The FAA didn’t.rule the world. It even didn’t rule a major part of the world. But I have to admit that this is a different topic in fact.
B787 descent profile on simbrief is .85/310/250
If I am allowed to do 350 in an airliner, I should be allowed to do 350 in a fighter. I heard someone actually got ghosted for doing 320 at 12000 once.
The 250 kts under 10,000 is waived by the FAA to the military under certain circumstances. It’s common to see T45s enter the pattern at 350kts since the NATOPS specifies that speed for the overhead maneuver.
Yes there’s exceptions in the real world but since we can’t make exceptions right now, that’s what I would recommend. I’m referring to the present like OP.
If there’s a TFR then, there’s your exception in Infinite Flight now, but if there is not then I’m just telling you what controllers will look for when controlling.
- How do you know that’s why they were reported. Is that what they were told or was that what they just interpreted?
- 320knts IAS at 12,000ft is too fast but not reportable solely for the speed so the pilot likely wasn’t following Approach’s instructions or something else occurred.
We as IFATC (me at least) try not to report users who are flying at relative quick speeds in their fighters. 300 knots or even 350 IAS is relatively quick but not enough (for me at least) to warrant a report. If there are spacing issues, particularly on approach or center, I issue speeds commands or as a last resort vector the fighter away from their flight plan and issue altitude changes to prevent separation issues. This is if the pilot is flying at relatively quick speeds.
However, if the pilot is doing 2000 knots IAS, then it’s a different story. There is absolutely no need to go this quick, especially when approaching a controlled airspace because you’ll be inevitably interfering with traffic. Believe it or not, flying faster under approach will not necessarily mean you’ll be on the ground faster. By flying at these excessive speeds, if you are not reported, you’ll be creating more problems for yourselves and others. We as controllers will need to issue you speed commands, as well as probably deviate you from your flight plan, and you’ll almost certainly be on the ground much later than if you were going at a reasonable speed as it’s much easier for controllers to either allow you to fly your flight plan or vector you manually. Moral of the story - don’t fly at these speeds in a controller airspace especially if it’s busy. You’re not just creating more problems for yourselves, but others as well.
I agree totally, in active airspace rules can be restrictives for fighterjets, because no one told you to fly there at unreasonable speeds. I think we are speaking about an automatic system that can be applied in all the world, even without traffic around, aren’t we?
No I’m speaking about under active ATC. Mainly supercruising under oceanic control