Expert Server: Warnings before ghosting

Soory I should have clarified.
I meant like one of those fuel emergencies where you go around more than once already and fuel shows red.

If you declare a fuel emergency, and especially so if it’s after you were told to go around already, we will work together with the other controllers and do our best to ensure you land safely. It’s not always possible, but whenever it is, we will do our best


You should still have far more fuel than that.

Fuel showing red is dependent on power settings it correlates with fuel flow. If you do a flight from KJFK to ZSPD on takeoff, climb, almost up to cruise your fuel will show red due to high power setting which means high fuel consumption.

Thus, you can have 2 hours of fuel and your fuel show red on go around due to high power demands and fuel flow requirements. This doesnt constitute an emergency. Emergency fuel should be calculated while in level flight at a constant airspeed. If at that point you have <30 mins remaining then you truly are in “emergency” state.

Many times it’s too late by the time you ghost to give a warning. I had a guy today who was told to hold short, then instantly crossed a runway causing a short final go-around. and laura was in the pattern Don’t think you could really warn for that by the time they’re on the other end of the runway.

I saw you flying today

Anyways, off topic…

I have a question… what exactly is interfering with others if there are specific commands and there is nothing to physically interfere with…


That is incorrect, we don’t always give warnings prior to ghost. Depending on the issue, you will get ghosted without warning

Especially like entering the runway without permission.

Yes they would give you warnings. Many times I would fly and I did not know that approach gives you frequency at there given time. Even on final sometimes. I did not also know that VFR you don’t ask for altitude change. This was when I started

That’s the wrong indicated.
ETE will show red depending on power.The fuel remaining will show red at a fixed amount.

It means you created a potential loss of seperation (eg. cutting through final)

If this is the situation you should’ve never made it on final to that airport to begin with. A decision to divert to an airport that allows you to still land with reserve fuel should be made. Controllers should not be expected to accommodate poor planning, both in not properly calculating fuel prior to departure and pilots allowing themselves to be on final as a glider with no ability to respond to instructions and maintain separation.

As HD explained, it starts with the mindset.


Yeah I pan for fuel always.The only time I had a close call was NZAA-EGLL after a go around but I wouldn’t do anything like like with ATC anyways

Yep, it is recommended to have at least 30 minutes of fuel left after landing at the arrival airport listed in the flight plan before departing from the airport.

Outside of doing something without clearance (taxi, pushback, runway, landing, etc) there are a number of things that pilots do that can interfere with others that may result in a report.

The most common that I see is cutting sequence in an approach line. Often time we will see a pilot told #4, traffic to follow is on base but they take it upon themselves to go ahead and make a tight base turn back to the runway to land. Often this will create an issue with an existing plane on final. Due to the nature and timing, warning is not possible. This can be with or without approach present.

Probably the next one I see is pilots who cannot intercept the runway heading. They are told to turn within 30 degrees of the runway heading and it is their responsibility to line themselves up with the runway. Often I will see a pilot going too fast or not turn for the intercept and they make a wide turn into the path of a parallel runway.

Just are probably the two that are the most common from what I see.


For the second one isn’t it possible that Appr more is messing up?

Not really. Usually it is because the pilot is too fast or turned too late (or engaged APPR too late)

Also some pilots just struggle with turning and don’t know they have to align themselves.

would appr mode at ksfo cause a problem for example? cuz those runways are extremely close

Not if you do it correctly. If you are too fast your turning radius regardless of manual vs APPR will be impacted.

This was very informative as I have witnessed pilots not follow radar’s instructions when told to turn final.

On a side not, I may have cut the sequence (not quite sure) in the dark but I believe it was ATC error, like there was once a time I was sequenced to follow a plane on final as number 5 and there were only 3 planes in the airspace and there was one on downwind, base and short final, I was in front of the person on downwind but then followed the person on base instead because it was clear to me that the controller had made an error.

I never found the controller’s IFC but I never thought it would be a big issue because I myself get mixed up with pattern work a hell of a lot and I respect all IFATC and their abilities but in this case, I’m not sure whose fault it might be nor how to alert a controller ON THE SPOT if I don’t understand or see an error. @Chris_S