Enough Is Enough

Enough Is Enough.

Before the staff, mods & some folks decide to bombard me, close & unlist the topic before removing my TL3 status (which I honestly don’t care about at this point) &/or suspending me, please hear me out:

Enough is enough. Story time:

When I joined the IFC back in September 2019 (Almost 1 year now), I didn’t know that I had just joined a community with aspiring aviators, amazing events & content creators, & nice staff & moderator team. More importantly, I felt that I was part of a family, because as some of you may already know, I don’t really have friends at school. What used to be sitting alone & eating lunch turned out to aviation flights, FR24, & longing to log on to the IFC.

I remember the good ol’ times with @Infinite_Flight_Sims, @Thunderbolt, @BravoCharlie, & so many users on the IFC at the time. Fast forward to around February 2020, everything seemed to be going fine with a few new users & a few veterans retiring.

But then, in March 2020, COVID hit & everything spun out of control. The IFC got a ton of users, more events & traffic, & some good times in between. But then, the atmosphere suddenly changed. Nothing was going to be the same…


June-August 2020:

Everyone is in the middle of a pandemic. Riots break out across the country & it seems that catastrophic events will keep going on. Well, that’s true. But in the middle of all of it, we didn’t need Infinite Flight to start a huge issue altogether.

@anon79257371 (Also used to be known as Alex) posted a topic earlier about how fun topics were gone, new users were mistreated, loss of connection between members & regulars, politics, mini-modding, & passive-aggressive text. While the staff & moderators did make some changes, clearly, new issues came up.

For example, IF’s marketing team started to post replies against those giving legitimate feedback or just replying on social media pages. As @RTG113 & @Guxk pointed out in these topics:

And the replies to these comments made me turn green.
To RTG113’s post (I can’t quote it, so please just check the topic “A few concerns” if you want to verify):

“Please don’t assume that everyone who’s the brunt of a sarcastic reply from our social media team are customers. We deal with thousands of non-paying trolls and often a public roast is the last straw for us. Not all criticism is constructive, and not all company replies will be serious."

To Guxk’s post:

Look, I have nothing against Jason & the marketing/social media team, but clearly, these are lame excuses. Here are some points about these comments:

  1. IF said that “Please don’t assume that everyone who’s the brunt of a sarcastic reply from our social media team are customers.” I’d also like to ask, how can you assume that the person you sent a sarcastic reply is NOT a customer?

Also, in some of the cases where people just say "Infinite Flight is bad”, why does IF have to comment? If you know that they are a waste of time, then why write sarcastic replies? There’s something called “live & let live”.

Haters are haters. You don’t need to post a reply to every single comment. Not to mention, some of your customers write some good comments on your social media pages, which you fail to address because you are wasting time writing to some person who wrote 1 tiny bad comment on your page.

  1. Jason mentions “I was calling myself a boomer for cracking the old “I’m disappointed" dad comment…”

Clearly, that was a lame way to excuse yourself from writing a comment that you know was terrible. Rather than trying to prove a point every time, why not just say “I’m sorry for what I said.”? Just apologize instead of trying to defend your comments each & everytime. We all make mistakes, but if we don’t rectify it, the pattern continues on.


I don’t understand… why can’t Infinite Flight take some criticism? Criticism is something that makes you want to strive to do better, even if it hurts at the heat of the moment.

A fellow friend & member of the IFC said that, “It would be one thing if they took criticism and said something about fixing it and made these jokes, but they’re never willing to take criticism, they just deflect it and blame the consumer.”

And it’s not just him who says it, others agree too. Other members stated that, “they treat the IFC and customers like some sort of a joke”, “like why not fix the problem instead of insulting your paying customer smh”, & “It has been proven time and time again that nothing bad can ever be said about this community, and everything has to be censored.”

About censorship of posts, there’s no more creativity in the IFC. While I do like the idea of IFC-Gametime, fun topics are only going to be posted by mods & regulars, which honestly seems unfair. People have ideas & they’d be interested in sending them across, but that’s not allowed.

Sometimes, when people do post topics like this one, it just gets unlisted or deleted ASAP so that the IFC cannot see or discuss anything. The moment someone posts something like this, it’s gone. Zero, zip, nada.

Of course, IF would try to unlist it because they also don’t want a bad impression of the IFC & IF altogether, which is understandable. But some of their repetitive mistakes is going to & has already caused problems to many users on the IFC. I no longer enjoy that same ol’ IFC which had Alex (@anon79257371), @Infinite_Flight_Sims, & so on. I know new users come & go, but at least showing some respect for your current users can go a long way.

I also remember how many were asking for regular evaluation of TL3 members. While that’s totally fine with most of us, sometimes, you should also evaluate TL4 members. I know many users have been mad about how some of the TL4 members abuse their powers. This has been a factor that has caused many users to leave as well. [I’m not saying that all TL4 members are bad… many deserve their roles, but some have abused their powers].

I know my words may be controversial & this topic might be closed [which IF really shouldn’t do, maybe a civilized discussion below would be nice], I get demoted, warned, banned, & all the 1000000+ things that IF can do. But please, take into account of what the users have to say. This used to be a safe, fun, & loving community, but it’s not anymore. I know IF has the potential to change that & it starts by small steps towards the right direction. Even if the steps are small, they can create a huge difference to the IFC.

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When leaders flout rules and morals, things don’t end well. Go look at world history, and you’ll see it always falls apart.
I guess, in some respects, this community has fallen apart.

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I really want to avoid all controversial conversation, so let me start and hopefully set the tone.


You bring up very good points here and I agree with what you have to say. The things that have gone on recently aren’t a true reflection of what the IFC is/supposed to be. I remember, very well, the times when the IFC was full of bright converations and joy. That still exists, just with not so bright and joyful conversations.

I am truly hoping that things will evolve, in the right direction, and everyone will learn, both staff and us members.

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Some recent events have certainly been disappointing for someone like me, who looks up to the developers team. I expected a little more maturity. We all have good intentions and are trying to learn new things.

However at the end of the day, we are all here for one thing: Aviation. I believe our love for aviation will overcome any hate or negativity in this community.

Edit: Thank you Jason for admitting your mistake, takes a true man to do that.

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I appreciate your thoughts.

Tonight’s reply on the tracking thread was to point out that a fun Easter egg was missed by a community who finds everything! It was taken out of context by some folks I’ve offended in the past which I think is where the misunderstanding was. I wasn’t responding to anyone’s feedback (I hadn’t read most of it but some was very well thought out and important - I messaged those people directly).

I’ll fall on my sword though. My sarcasm and attempt at self deprecation to make light of it didn’t land so I apologize. I care about our users and I work hard (mostly behind the scenes these days) to keep IF moving forward in the aviation and sim community.

Have a good night, everyone.
Jason

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The thing is that when there is criticism the person or in this case Infinite flight needs to listen to constructive criticism. Thus making IF more of a fixed mindset instead of focusing on improving the simulator.

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Well I don’t agree that “fallen apart” Is the right word, if you take a look at any other forms (etc. Reddit, Twitter, or any other community forums), you will be banished to Siberia for your opinion, since of course this is the internet, but here at least everybody is mildly nice. But I do agree IFC has taken somewhat of a downturn in the recent ”snarky” or misunderstood remarks.

I think the community just needs a little bit of guidelines. I think the staff you’re amazing, But, just like he said, staff shouldn’t be exempt from any rules that may apply to any pilots In infinite flight. I feel that there could be a greater sense of professionalism, but I don’t wanna start any arguments, and I just wanna point out the infinite flight and the community or two of the 10 best things in the world.

Thank you, I’m glad you were able to clear the misinterpretations & also rectify any mistakes.

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Again I will say that I wasn’t responding to anyone’s criticism in this case.

I want to also point out that an owner of the company made himself available on Saturday to answer literally anything and very few people showed up. That would have been a fabulous opportunity to ask a pointed question about this issue which seems very close to many of you. Developers are listening and available in the correct time and place.

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One positive thing tho, is that topics like this have helped. Alex’s topic a while ago, had a lot of constructive feedback and I honestly believe that staff are listening.

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It’s late for me folks. I’ll take another look at this tomorrow when I’m working. Time to call it a day.

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Everything has its ups and downs. Positives and negatives. Times right now are tough, and understandably, tensions can get high. However, those don’t serve as excuses for the trend of sarcastic and negative-leaning things happening here. It may be amusing from one side of the conversation, but for the other side, it can hurt. And it does, for many.

Ran, I agree with what you have to say in its entirety, and I applaud you for taking the initiative to try and help mend relations in the IF community, both between fellow community members, and between community and staff. I’m hoping this topic is kept open to allow for on-topic and peaceful dialogue between all parties to learn from the negatives, the mistakes, and just the bad things of the past in general, and use those lessons to strengthen the community. Each relationship and community has its ups and downs. Now, it depends on how we choose to fix that. Let the voices be heard, and the comments be taken in stride, for the betterment and well-being of everyone. Let’s use these moments to grow stronger.

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If mildly nice means nice enough to let people forget about your old mistakes, that’s one of the things I like about this community.

By “fallen apart”, I mean the disconnect between some TL4s and regulars/former regulars/long-time community members that have left with little to no traces. You know, those once prominent members that you just forget about until you stumble into an old topic and then leave you wondering about what happened to them.

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That was in the past. He owned up to his mistake and apologized.

The staff are human believe it or not. Just like you and me, they make mistakes. No one is out to get you or hurt you, they are working hard to make your experience better.

This forum is like a relationship. There are going to be fights. But that’s how you know it is a relationship worth having.

-Phil Dunphy

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I’m glad you brought this up. I truly am tired of scrolling through social media and seeing an Infinite Flight staff member making a snarky reply at someone trying to give honest feedback or a recommendation. We can help fix this together by only posting stuff we mean, and the staff team could respond with meaningful responses. The amount of restrictions put on non-TL3 or 4 users is also crazy, as 99% of the TL0,1, and 2 users really do mean no harm. Hopefully, once the pandemic begins to fade away, IF will become what it used to be, pre-summer 2020.

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That’s true, although I’m concerned with all of the people that are suddenly disappearing from the IFC… things can definitely improve for good.

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Literally any and almost all Social Media sights are people just fighting. It gives people a way to let out their frustrations on others thinking it will help themselves by leaving harmless comments. But all it does it cause the 2 people that read it to become angry and keep repeating the cycle over and over. When you fight fire with Fire you don’t extinguish the fire. You make it bigger. There is no one size fits all approach to make everyone agree with everyone or to just leave it be. People will disagree but that is alright that’s what makes us human. Yes, IF could take into consideration what people say, and not be so rude some times. But on the other hand everyone has to ask a question to themselves. What would you do? You may think it is easy to just write comments all day on social media like @jasonrosewell does on Insta or FB or Twitter when something new is posted. But it can be stressful because you have thousands of people approaching you wanting questions and how do you filter out what is a legit question and what isn’t. I am not giving an excuse to ride behavior but I do think it isn’t one person or side that needs to change or anything.

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I can’t agree more, especially about the Legitimate feedback part, thanks for making this, I’m sure most of us agree with you and it should be changed👍.

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And as a user who joined just before the beginning of the COVID pandemic, and one who doesn’t check social media often, I can say I have seen rudeness towards others on this forum. Yes it’s not nice and no it should happen especially when staff or TL 2+ users are making those claims.

@ran making a topic like this is something that take a TON of courage and I’m glad you did.

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