Enhanced Radar Map for Sequencing

Hi all,

To celebrate my reaching TL2, here is a feature I have been considering for a while.

When there is no Approach control but the airspace is busy, it is common (even on Expert) to see pilots failing to understand the sequencing instructions they are being given, specifically with regards to which aircraft to follow. Similarly, even when you are closely following the radar map to try to determine where Tower wants you it’s not always easy to work out, especially when there are departing aircraft on the downwind and base legs confusing matters.

My proposal is a relatively simple one (although whether that is the case for the developers is quite another matter!). When Tower gives a sequence position to a plane, it could show up on the radar as an additional line of information, along with the runway for which the pilot should be aiming. The latter would allow for sequencing at larger airports with more than one runway.

In the example below I have used ZSQD/Qingdao Liuting, but have just randomly shown runway 27R (rather than the real runway 17) to demonstrate what I mean.

As a potential additional part of this, I have turned the text green for the Swiss 1 11 plane to show that it has been cleared to land.

EDIT

Some additional functionality, as suggested by replies below (thanks both!):

  1. When aircraft lands, its sequence number disappears and those behind it tick down by 1.

  2. If aircraft does a touch-and-go, it would not retain its sequence number - scenario as for landing aircraft, and it would need a new sequence number from Tower.

  3. When an aircraft announces a go around or missed approach, its sequence number disappears and those behind it tick down by 1. Aircraft would require a new sequence instruction and number.

  4. If Tower decides to slot another aircraft in before one that already has a sequence number, the numbers for those that will now be behind it tick up by 1 (but I would advise that Tower still needs to issue the communication to those aircraft to advise them, as ATC currently does most of the time).

I believe this sort of functionality on the map could help to allow pilots to get in the right order more easily, given neither they nor the ATC have the ability to communicate in the way towers and pilots do in the real world.

I like this idea! It could also appear on the pilot’s screen as they sometimes lose their sequence :)

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Don’t forget to vote for your feature!

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We need this! Removed a vote for this! Like @SterlingArcher said, don’t forget to vote for your own feature!

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Really helpful idea! Get my vote!

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I believe this would be a very cool addition to the training server as this would help educate training pilots but should not be implemented on the expert server. Serious users shouldn’t need help understanding sequencing and counting.

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Great idea especially I’m in the process for trying out for IFATC. I also add I have a great trainer @Trio. You have my vote.

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Only if there are 99+ planes in sequencing 😂 this option will be good for Expert Server

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I see what you mean. But, what if TS ATC’s dont know the basic stuff about sequencing?? Won’t they confuse the Training Server pilots a lot more??

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It already confuses them @Thomas_G, it will actually help make them less confused because they could anticipate the controller’s mistake as they too also have no clue what sequencing is.

It would also help the pilot acclimate to the map so it would be a great tool for education purposes, I personally would be very irriated if I flew on expert and felt like I was being given “helper” guides.

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Sounds like a great idea! Cleared a vote without second thought, trying to remember my sequencing train can be hard when dealing with multiple aircraft.

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What happens when one plane lands? Do all the numbers adjust? What happens when a plane goes around?

I like the idea but I think there’s more to it for consideration.

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Land: Company aircraft’s number ticks down and landing aircraft’s shows nothing.

Example of landing aircraft: — - —

Go around: Company aircraft’s number ticks down and go around aircraft resets as if they were inbound. You could even change the number to LOC to show he’s going around.

Example of go around aircraft: LOC - 27L

Touch and go: Number ticks down and touch and go aircraft resets as if they were inbound. You could even change the number to LOC to show he’s remaining in the pattern.

Example of touch and go aircraft: LOC - 27L

Missed approach: Company aircraft’s number ticks and aircraft on a missed approach resets as if they were inbound. You could even change the number to LOC to show he’s a missed approach.

Example of missed approach: LOC - 27L

Same logic to the radar for an approach controller that is already implemented into the sim could be applied to a training server pilot’s map.

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Thanks for the constructive comments. I have used the suggestions from @Trio to update the original post.

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I get what you mean - I do like to get ‘in the zone’ with what ATC is thinking by using the map when flying into busy airspace (whether on Approach or Tower).

I suppose my concern would be that having this functionality on TS but then removing it on Expert would cause even more chaos on that server with (some of) the new Grade 3s.

This seems worth removing a vote! Looks like a great idea

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Well, it must be on Expert during FNF.

My idea: If controller already gave sequencing number to one of the approaching planes the system must suggest +1 sequencing number to the next plane while ATC wants to gave him his number.

Now we have only 10 numbers, but what about real life? During bad weather conditions there can be over 20 planes at once. What IF ATC should do in this case?

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I guess the free-for-all would have to continue until Tower intervened when a sequencing spot became available.

If I read this correctly, you propose the sequence (and runway number?) info to be visible to both Tower ATC and Pilots, correct?

The first thing that came to my mind was the post from @StevenCRH (below):
What should I do when the ATC told me No. 7, traffic to follow is on left downwind
This idea could be the answer to Steven’s question.

I know Radar Controllers see on their radar screens a tag with the aircraft showing details about their approach type, and runway. But this is not visible for the pilots. Your proposal appears to be more focused on pilots, which is fine of course.

I wonder how this is done in real life. How do inbound aircrafts in real life, work out their sequence number? Does anyone know? We don’t want IF to drift off too far from real life scenarios.

@Trio suggests this to be a helpful tool for pilots on Training server. How many Training server ATCs understand and use the concept of sequencing…

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I had this in mind for pilots to see, but obviously a version of it could work on the Tower screen.

Drifting from reality is a concern, but equally real people can give more comprehensive instructions than the ATC commands on IF allow. An actual pilot could probably advise on how this is done - I wonder if it is something like “number 4, behind Alitalia 72”.