I don’t care for the “This isn’t ‘real world’, it’s IF” argument much.
Airports should have extra information about runway usage, to make it easier for everyone to figure out which green runways can’t be used for what reason.
That would also take care of the mess at EHAM. I’ve created several topics about that already.
Apparently “us controllers will always use the available runways we have on hand”, as @JoshFly8 put it. Basically that sounds like “Disregard real world situation and always use all green runways.”.
It makes no sense and I don’t get it.
I just quit when I see ATCs using the wrong runways at EHAM and return when the ATC knows what he’s doing. Like @JeebakR. That guy is awesome! There are more great ATCs of course. Not all care or know about real word situations though. Even when there are no taxiways to enter or exit certain runways, they are still used just because they are green. Shame.
I love IF though!! Don’t get me wrong. :)
Thanks. Well said. One question is in IF can we taxi up 08L if it is not being used as they do in real life
We should be able to, however don’t think there is that option in ATC phrase book at present.
Yet people still taxi to runway 22 in WIDD! I mean! Listen to THE GUY who lived there. aka me! BE REALISTIC AND USE the other end! No back taxi required! Thank you, good day
If I’m on duty, yes I’m more than happy to let you taxi up the unused runway if it’s quiet. No warnings from me.
Most people know this is what happens in real life, and Gatwick is usually quiet enough in IF to do it too.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love if every time a controller opened, they would follow all real life procedures, but on the Expert Server, expect professional controlling, but you can’t always expect real-to-life controlling every time, because you never know. I cringe myself whenever I see someone controlling different then they normally do at my local airport. Regarding the issue with crossing 08L in IF, it is still a runway in IF, and you never know if the controller is or isn’t following procedures. It might be better when they reintroduce ATIS, but for now it might not be the best idea to ignore it as a runway. I would love for everyone to know all the procurers, but they don’t open the same airport every day. Same as the controllers at EHAM wouldn’t know the normal procedures at KCLT. Just doesn’t work when we open hundreds of different airports over time
Would I like to do real life scenarios, yes. But in real life you don’t have 20 inbound all 2 miles apart along with 20 on the ground all taking off at the same time. If we did not use all the runways we would be responding to messages regarding “I was sitting on the taxiway for an hour”. Not everyone pushes back at the same time either at these airports, it is scheduled. The same holds true at some of the larger airports, KORD for example. Last night there were just too many inbound and on the ground to adhere to normal operating procedures.
With that being said I do make an effort to look online at the flow for airports that I do not know. I will admin that until this thread I did not know about 26L. Until the markings are removed and it is a normal taxiway neither will other pilots. Then we would be responding to messages of “Why cant ATC use all the runways”.
We are stuck in the middle I am afraid.
When I control Gatwick, I always follow real world procedures by using 26L/08R as my only runway and use 26R/08L as a taxiway for arrivals back to the terminal area. The only exception to that is when a small GA aircraft wants to fly some patterns, then I let them use 26R/08L.
The result of this debate is destined at a later date. I have few inputs:
As a controller:
Someone opens tower,he sees 22 inbounds. First thought in his mind:
- how to accommodate them in the best possible way.
- how to use the available runways. By the word “available” I refer to runways that can take the aircrafts the simulator has.
- maximise efficiency over time.
- when he accommodated 22 inbounds,another 15 is inbound.
*now keep in mind, he has a lot of departures as well.
He asks for help. "Approach needed.
First few minutes or half hour goes. He alone gives his best. Approach comes in at a later stage finding 28+ inbounds.
- how to make a good sequence,spacing and proper ILS or GPS intercept.
In all of this thinking,for relentless hours,how can someone(controllers who are not related to the aviation sector) think of referring to charts and real life procedures when 28+ inbounds are hammering constantly and he needs to take an immediate decision of what to do,because he knows the 28 isn’t the end. Another 15/20 are inbound from NEWS( north east west south).
He entered the frequency to :
- assist and help tower
- reduce load of aircrafts
- increase efficiency.
If that includes a runway which is not used in real life,bear it in mind,real life
- traffic 2) controllers 3) circumstance is never equivalent to IF.
By the term “realistic” experience on expert server,it refers to bringing in professionalism as much as possible.
- there is no end to learning.
- We are not professional real life controllers.
- We did not go through years of learning and hardships.
Even after all of this,I still say:
We do try to use the real life runways,but it’s not really an amicable solution all the time. Maybe someday it will be. But not right now. Give us time to be more adept of real life procedures. Let the regions expand. Let us get more room to accommodate 50 plus traffic from different sides at same time. Time will heal these small infirmities. Till then,
Let us try to keep a symbiotic relation.
I have just been on expert server and was told taxi to 26R in an A380. I requested taxi agin to 26L. Was the. Denied and told to follow instructions so I did to avoid 👻👻in future can all IFATC please be aware of this and not allow heavies to take off on this runway. Thanks
Nope. We are allowed to use all of our runways. Using RL ops is at the controller’s discretion.
its good to see you guys expect realism. then please do not request the same thing 5 times in a row, or be patient and look around to see what is going on. As Jeebak said, we have to reduce traffic load ASAP. If there is a runway, we use that runway. Regards.