Does the no local flying rule apply if a plane diverts?

Let’s say if last week I did a VA flight into KEWR and I need to divert to KJFK for fuel. Now if I still want to log the flight I need to fly back to KEWR but that’s normally disallowed. Is there an exception of that rule for diversions or would I have to fly to another airport just to be able to land at KEWR?
(btw. this did not actually happen)

Also would I be ghosted if I depart from KEWR, IF PAX gives me an engine failure during climb, and I return to KJFK instead of KEWR?

The short answer is “no, there is no exemption from a TFR for whatever VA log requirements you have.”

Is flying out of airspace and back in still considered local flying? (Isn’t the point of the rule to avoid people cutting into the arrival queue?)

Depends on what you mean.

Flying out of JFK in a TBM and exploring upstate New York for half an hour and returning to EWR is fine.

Flying one nautical mile outside the circle and turning right back as some means of subverting it is not.

I meant actually leaving the airspace so I can do a proper arrival and not cut inline.
(Or I could just divert further in the first place, just wanted to check)

Also there was no circle last week? So wouldn’t it be unfair for people without IFC account?

Both of these include leaving the airspace.

If you are just flying straight to the back of the line, that’s still a local flight, yes. Even if you go a millimeter out of the TFR zone.


It’s very common sense, really.

“Are you arriving from a real flight of some significant distance?”

If the answer is “no” then it’s a local flight.

They are more than welcome to get an account.

They also seem to find the schedule just fine.


There shouldn’t be a need for a circle, honestly. We have to put the TFRs up to make it concrete and crystal clear (which still doesn’t work fully), but it should just be common sense—indeed, common decency—to not fly to the busiest hub of the day from a mile away.

It’s an incredible stress on the workload and bandwidth of approach controllers and it’s just a silly flight. No one flies for 5 minutes in a 388. Just plan a flight. It isn’t that hard.

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Actually can you answer my question about local flying happening as a result of a diversion? @Tim_B

You shouldn’t fly a local flight even if you had to divert for a VA. As @Tim_B had stated, there are no exceptions for VA’s. I’d wait a day until the airport isn’t featured anymore, and then finish up the flight.

Actually does it make a difference if I don’t leave the session so the controller can see what happened?

Sure:

(The implication being that if you diverted you must finish your flight to the original destination to meet some requirement external to the Expert server interactions between the pilot and the controller.)

And the answer is no. If you divert, you divert. That’s where you land. If you take off again from JFK that is not the slightest bit different from any other flight taking off from there and you will be held to the same standards of the TFR as any other plane.

There is not a loophole to the TFR. Nothing outside of normal communication between pilot and IFATC is afforded any consideration, whether that is completing some sort of mission for a VA or something a third-party app does.


Believe me, anyone reported for doing such a flight will take note of any and every pilot they see allowed to make the same flight.

If it isn’t enforced across-the-board, it can’t exist, because we can’t tell pilot X it’s okay for pilot Y but not you because he has to do this or that or another app simulated an engine failure.


The only thing that matters is “are you increasing the traffic volume in a conjested area with a unnecessarily short flight.”

The reasons behind that flight are irrelevant. It’s either yes or no.

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No.

He will see you’ve landed at JFK, but are now taking off for EWR from JFK.

(I said it above but: no loophole. Of any kind.)

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So if I did KEWR-KBOS-KJFK it would be fine, but if I try to do KEWR to EGLL, but turn around 1 hour in to land at KJFK it would not be fine? The second scenario would take longer than the first one. Tha’s what I meant by a simulated engine failure, not a failure right after takeoff.

This is what I was referring to in my first post. For this you’re leaving the airspace, you’re staying away for an extended period.

But I can’t just say “if you leave the airspace” because someone will say “I left the airspace by 1 nm so technically…” and that won’t work.


Look.

It’s not that complicated.

If you’re making some effort to make a legitimate flight of some period of time during which you will be well out of the way of all traffic, fine.

If you’re looking for ways to make a 5 minute flight into a 6 minute one to slip just out of the noose, not fine.

It’s very simple. Don’t overthink it.

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Thanks for the help. This can be closed. And I’ll divert further away anyways just to avoid this in the future.

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