Discussing the meta of the forum in public

I will also give my opinion on this subject now. Even if the comment is long, I would like to ask you to read it completely before commenting on it.

I’m a little divided about this. On the one hand, I fully agree with you that it is not very beneficial for the image of a community to have every comment under a post directly aimed at the fact that the topic is theoretically violating the meta guidelines. On the other hand, it is also important to point out especially to the new Community Members that there are certain rules to follow. Meta is relevant somewhere. We are tens of thousands of people here. If everyone would do what he or she wants, this would be chaos.

You’re right, now you can do this via PM. But then I see the problem in the fact that a user may suddenly receive 7 PMs with one and the same message. For this reason, I can fully understand it if you inform a user in a public comment under the post of the respective user that this does not actually comply with the rules. In this way, other community members will also see that the issue has been addressed and closed. But these other community members would have to stick to it and not mention it over and over again.

However, now comes a very important point:

It is not what you say, it is the way you say it.

Imagine the following situation: A user recently discovered the IFC. He’s still on TL1, so he can’t post in #real-world-aviation. He now finds an article online about a topic that he is enormously enthusiastic about. He decides to share it with us at the IFC. He writes a few lines, shares the article and looks forward to the comments. And the comments are coming. But unfortunately not positive or related to the topic. Nothing but the standard copy/paste “Welcome To The Community” posts.

And right here, I agree with you, this is enormously problematic. One takes the joy and enthusiasm of the user, crumples him with one hand and smashes it by a firm throw against the next wall.

That’s why I’m not a fan of these copy/paste comments. It’s just a race, who’s the fastest in commenting the “Here read this and these links and welcome and blablabla” standard stuff.

I therefore try to deal with the topic first with my comments. I try to understand the people behind the post, because what’s posted is very exciting, even though it might be against the meta rules. I comment the topic first because it is interesting. And then instead of “That’s not allowed, please delete it” I say “For Future post, please notice” or “Have a look at this topic before your next post”. We shouldn’t bash users for something they did, but we should inform them of how they could do it in the future. We can’t change the past, but we can change the future.

I have to admit that I was guilty of some crimes I know criticize myself, both in the past and in more recent times. Like all of us, I’m human. And us humans, we make mistakes. But I try to reflect on my actions and learn from them. So I would like to take back some flags or delete comments, because I simply reacted too hastily. But I’m almost 100% sure that many of us are. Life is a learning process, and here at the IFC we learn more every day.

That’s why I’ve been trying to get to know the IFC a little better for some time now. I comment less, but read a lot more. You can see that when you look at my statistics. I find it interesting to see how the same patterns appear again and again. That’s why I really appreciate this post from you.

In the end, I am firmly convinced that none of us has an evil hidden intention when posting here. Most of us want to help other users. Some just like that, others with the ulterior motive of maybe getting to TL3 faster. This is where it’s important to start. We must create a culture in which criticism can be expressed. But we must shape this culture in such a way that criticism is also expressed constructively, without destroying all joy and enthusiasm.

I wish you all the best and I’m looking forward to see all of you around here! IFC is a great community with many interesting people. We don’t have to like everyone, we don’t have to always agree with each other. But we have to stay respectful.

All the best!
Marc

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One other thing I forgot to mention in my post:

If you think someone needs to see this post, because in their reply it was too “metay” or doesn’t belong in the thread, don’t just reply to them with this thread, as it further more metafies the thread. Just DM it to them, or don’t DM it at all.

Hey, if I’m one of the “offenders” I’m really sorry to everybody. Recently, I’ve been changing and talking about what the post is for. Not about just “Make sure to put it in this category”. I really like this community. And if I’m not one of the offenders, I’m still trying to become a better person everyday. We all make mistakes and it’s how we learn from them. Sorry and thank you.

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Well said, @Trio. This is a reminder for many people here.


Following some topics lately I’ve definitively realized and seen an increase in rude/arrogant behavior. Whether that be replies, or just simply saying an insult in a kind way. One thing that I’m not a fan of is when regulars act as moderators. While people might be regulars, that doesn’t give them the right to just comment whatever they want, how they want. I don’t consider many regulars friends as I once did, because of the reasons I said above. At one point I was going to leave the forum, but then I was reminded that there were many nice people here.


Also if I’m seen as one of the “Offenders” then I apologize. It’s hard to act when your posts get overthrown with insultive and mean comments saying how it doesn’t belong in this community.

Putting the negatives aside, hopefully we as the users can all act up and make this community a better place, with more loving and caring posts that actually contribute to the topic itself.


Clear skies.

please don’t take my post as an insult, but rather as feedback

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@Marc

Your post is brilliant, I hope that everyone reads it in detail! Maybe even read it twice to let it sink in. As a Moderator and former Regular it is difficult sometimes to get through to some users. I treat the forum much like raising my children, being fair but consistent is key. I’ve also learned to take a deep breath and instead of talking down on someone you get on their level and try to put yourself in their shoes. Mods and Staffs aren’t here to ruin or prevent users from having an enjoyable experience. We just ask that some simple rules and guides much like the ones that you would abide by in front of your mother and father or the school principal are followed.

I can say that I’ve made some lifelong friends from this community and many pilots/controllers have expanded my aviation knowledge greatly. IFC is so diverse and extraordinary in many ways unlike other communities. As a whole I think the community has improved immensely from the highest ranking to the new users that join. Is it perfect? No, there is always room for improvement and advancement but that comes with experience and growth.

Levet

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@Levet

This is such a great post mate. It’s just such a shame when people are like this. I feel like we just need to step down and relax. We need to stop being like “Oh mods look at me I’m such a good user I’m correcting categories”. When in reality, this is frowned upon and probably hurting the OP’s feelings. Everyone obviously wants TL3 (including me) but for me, it’s more important to contribute and help to this community rather than just be so worried about what category and other stuff like that. I don’t think you get respect for what trust level you are. I think you would be more respected about how you contribute to this community. For example, @Maxmustang is one of the most respected and knowledgeable users on this forum, but he’s not a regular. Instead of correcting literally every detail, maybe have a conversation in the topic. And just PM the user if it’s in the wrong category instead of embarrassing the user.


I think this community is great and we can fix this problem. This is really a great place to learn and talk about aviation. Have an amazing day everybody.

Cooper

@Levet. MaxSez: Interesting modern approach “Dad”. I’m old school,
“Spare the rod, spoil the child ( in us)”! A bit of Tough-love in moderation from time to time sets the tone. Seems it time to change the tone Firedog, your kiddee’s are getting out of hand. LOL!
Warm Regards, Max

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I just wanted to add that I think the moderators and staff do a great job keeping the peace throughout the forum and growing the community. It’s a team effort though between the community and the team to keep the discussions productive though. They can only do so much. I’m glad the conversations here can be so civil and professional. :)

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Well, they do as its their job - but even as some volunteers they do a great job! It’s ironic they chose discourse to keep civil and professional discussion @Trio ☺️

When I joined the community back in December of 2017, this is exactly how it was handled, via PM predominantly. Any spelling or grammar mistakes, wrong category, ect. got a nice message then you just fixed it and you’re done.

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This is exactly how it should be done. I feel like people team up on people with lower trust levels and try to shame them publicly. They might be doing it unintentionally but I always think a kind PM would be helpful, instead of making the OP feel “stupid” whether that was your intention or not, that’s the way I perceived it. And some others do too.


Here is some advice from a nice person - we were discussing this: take advantage of it and learn :)

Overall, I agree with @Trio, @Marc and @Levet

Watch some of the people who commented here still do the same thing. It doesn’t really get fun when a bunch of people are racing to find out what’s wrong with a topic. I’m not as active on the forum because of this. I mostly go on to chat with @Armani_B , @CaptainBarney , or @Helicopterzzz . (Sorry for the tags) Please, like everybody else said, settle down or tell the person via PM.

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Totally agree with you there


Again Tim_B’s topic did change the way I reacted to replying to new members about topics or replies un-related , or just in the wrong category.


Problem when I was a member whenever I see someone new who may have posted in wrong category or something, I just left it for someone else to deal with because I got slightly paranoid with what I was typing because i didn’t know whether I was clashing a new TL0/1’s topic, or even hurting their confidence.
I was like:
“ok ima say this because this because it’s in the wro-
“actually is this benefiting the community?”
“well yes, but am I doing it in a nice manner?”
and then I just decided to leave it and yeah


so your reply may help me with how I should react to replies


When I joined this forum, one of the reasons why I didn’t want to really make topics, was because I had already lost confidence by just reading some replies like:
“i’m sorry, but this is in the wrong category. Please read the rules of how to format/where to post in each category”


So when we say stuff like that, we are potentially decreasing new forum members self-confidence (not massively, but depending on how many times a member has been thrown up upon). So then these new members can start to get paranoid then maybe just stay inactive, which is not really what we want.


I also sometimes wonder whether replies such as “this is in the wrong category” actually influence new forum members to do the same thing, as they kinda “look up” toward members, regulars and mods. So we doing this just basically causes it to spread to new members

@Trio. MaxSez : Please take a moment and view the Topic “MayDay, Alaska.

This is a typical type Topic that gets my attention. Consider also this Topic was posted by a Regular. Note the positive responses.
Are you sure the problem is the meta and not the demographic and scorning systems?
Max

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I’m sure of almost nothing, generally.

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An honest man! Max

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No problem bud!

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