Some airports have these taxiways that don’t intersect the runway proper, but definitely close enough to incur on planes using it; some may have a full double-bar hold short line. I’ve seen ppl either crossing by themselves or requesting perm from ATC in the same session bc of this.
Do we actually need to request cross runway? Is there a way to tell whether you need to?
I once did get a level 3 violation and once didn’t. It really depends if your controller cheated or not through his IFATC theory exams.
Not about cheating, it depends on the controller’s discretion - entering a runway while someone’s landing/taking off is completely different to when there’s nothing going on.
I’ve always seen it as - if there are runway hold short lines (as opposed to taxiway hold short lines), you should be requesting permission to cross, regardless of traffic.
Good question! A general rule of thumb is if you see a hold short line, particularly near a runway, it’s best to stop and request to cross.
For me, personally, I usually include the hold short command in my taxi routing
Edit: UGH. BENNY!
Essentially yeah. Kinda awkward situation with CYYZ 33R tho, since that one’s marked by a single dashed-line hold that IF doesn’t auto enforce.
I definitely agree with what has been said above, as I do hold too whenever there is a Hold Short line, even in the cases you mentioned, just to be sure.
Since you shared LIRF’s taxiway case too, I want to mention that for that specific airport, based on what I’ve read and also seen when I flew there IRL a few times, there is no need to hold behind runway 25. Runway 25 is always used for departures, and the taxiways behind it are used for 16L/34R arrivals. Landing planes will vacate 16L/34R and use the outer taxiway, D (the one right next to the runway), and follow a precise procedure of monitoring Ground and eventually hold at EG (a holding point not shown in the picture above, as it is much closer to the terminal area). They do not hold for 25, though, no matter if there are departing planes there.
It is, in fact, a nice experience for a passenger, especially one with a passion for aviation like us, sitting on the right side of the plane and seeing planes holding, lining up or taking off 25 
Yeah. I like to give preemptive crossings, especially for inactive runways to eliminate confusion there
To play devil’s advocate, not all controllers—just like pilots—know the SOPs of all airports. Even if that’s the case, it’s still safe to ask if there’s a HS line.
Definitely, I agree!
I was adding that as a sort of curiosity/fun fact, but I’m the first one to think what you just said. Since, as IFATC, we can open anywhere in the world, and as pilots, fly anywhere too, it’s just not possible for everyone to know all the procedures of all airports around the world. Better safe than sorry
Nice to know, since I got a nice level 3 violation for “crossing” rwy 25 after having landed on rwy 16L, some years back 
I am still a bit crossed about it 
…
Ah, that’s certainly a shame to hear.
Based on how this simulator works, we could say that it is understandable if an ATC reports you for that, as was said above, too. I know this happened many years ago, but still, for you, but also something I personally follow, and it would be better for everyone to do so, it’s always good to ask, so you are completely sure, haha.
The only exceptions are airports with NOTAMs/TFRs, I would say 
In its entirety, this was a nice discussion to clear some doubts out, anyway!
I stop in front of every bit of yellow paint ever since
Mandatory Holding Positions (Runway Holding Position)
These are lines where an aircraft must stop and cannot proceed without explicit ATC clearance.
Federal Aviation Administration (.gov) +3
Appearance: Four yellow lines—two solid, two dashed—across the taxiway. The solid lines are on the side where the pilot holds.
Signage: Accompanied by a mandatory sign with a red background and white inscription.
Purpose: To prevent runway incursions, protecting the runway, its safety area, or an Instrument Landing System (ILS) critical area.
Stop Bars: These may be reinforced by a “stop bar”—a line of inset red lights across the taxiway. A pilot must not cross an illuminated stop bar, and must stop even if authorized by ATC to cross if the lights are on.
Toronto Pearson Airport +4Non-Mandatory/Conditional Holding Positions (Non-Movement Area Boundary)
These lines indicate the boundary between the “movement area” (runway/taxiways, controlled by ATC) and the “non-movement area” (aprons/ramps, generally not controlled by ATC).
PilotWorkshops
Appearance: Two yellow lines—one solid, one dashed.
Operation: The solid line is on the non-movement side (e.g., on the apron), and the dashed line is on the movement side.
Procedure: Pilots can taxi from the movement area (dashed side) into the non-movement area without permission, but generally need to establish contact with ATC before crossing from the solid side into the movement area, depending on the airport’s specific rules.
Taxiway Intersections: A single dashed yellow line across a taxiway is used at intersections where ATC might hold an aircraft, but is not a permanent, mandatory stop point unless instructed.
Federal Aviation Administration (.gov) +1
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.
