CRAIC CR929 (Development And Tracking Thread)

This is the development and tracking thread of the CRAIC CR922. Since I missed out on the first few years of the development I have included below part of a Wikipedia article.

Development Between 2011 and 2017

In June 2011, Comac was studying the 290-seat C929 and 390-seat C939 wide-body aircraft.In June 2012, after assessing demand, Russia and China were to set up a joint venture between UAC and Comac to develop a successor to the Il-96. Development was expected to take at least seven years and cost $7–12 billion, with target production of several hundred aircraft. Russia would contribute its knowledge and China would provide the resources.

In May 2014, a memorandum on cooperation was reached and a feasibility study completed in autumn 2014. UAC estimated that wide-body demand worldwide through 2033 amounts to 8,000 aircraft, including 1,000 in China. In November 2014, UAC suggested a range of 12,000 km (6,500 nmi) range while Comac pointed to a gap in the market for a moderate range of 7,400 km (4,000 nmi); initial capacity was targeted for 250-280 seats with later shrink and stretch. In February 2015 preliminary design had begun. A nine-year, $13 billion development program was expected to be launched in 2016, targeting a 2025 introduction. Comac was expected to develop and build the fuselage while UAC handles the composite wing and fin.

In June 2015, an agreement targeted a mid-2021 first flight, with certification and initial deliveries in 2024. The airframe would be 50% composite and 15% titanium; UAC would deliver the first 360 ft-span (110 m) composite wings in 2019-2020. In November 2015, a more fuel-efficient, re-engined version of the Ilyushin IL-96-400M was announced as a more attainable and affordable alternative.

In June 2016, an agreement was signed to set up a 50-50 joint venture. In November 2016, at Zhuhai Airshow, Comac and UAC searched for suppliers and approached Honeywell and United Technologies. A mock-up was exhibited at the show. Comac and UAC estimated the development at 10 years, implying a first delivery in 2027 if the joint company was established and the program launched in 2017.

Evidence Show That The CRAIC CR929 Won’t Arrive On Time

Evidence is building that China and Russia’s long-haul passenger plane won’t arrive on time. The date for the first flight of a long-haul passenger plane jointly developed by China and Russia looks set to slip.

State-owned companies in Russia and China have been working together on a wide-body jet program since 2014 and was originally planned to enter the market by 2025.

Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) are building the CR929, a long-range, 250-320-seat, wide-body plane powered by two engines. The joint venture, headquartered in Shanghai, operates under the name CRAIC. The CR929 is aimed at winning a slice of the growing aviation pie and is particularly focused on the long-range routes currently dominated by Boeing’s 787 and the Airbus A350.

The firms jointly unveiled a full-size model of the plane at the November 2018 Zhuhai Airshow in China where COMAC maintained that a first customer delivery should happen by 2025. That date now looks in doubt after UAC said in June this year that while it had received its first preliminary orders, the first finished plane may now not appear until 2027.

CRAIC Program Director Xie Canjun told industry press in February this year that the concept design of the plane should be complete by early 2020.

“How wide and how long, the internal layout, the aircraft’s basic functionality, what is the range, and passenger capacity, these have all been done,” he said.

Russia will build the wings, but the plane’s fuselage is to be built in China where final assembly will occur.

CR929 Engine confusion

Aside from differing estimations on delivery dates, engine selection is offering further hints that communication between Russia and China is not operating smoothly.

General Electric and Rolls Royce are the two finalists to initially supply engines but a joint effort to develop a Sino-Russian engine for the Craic CR929 was announced at the Zhuhai show.

This news was immediately complicated by the Aero Engine Corp. of China (AECC) that displayed its own engine at the show. AECC executives claimed at the event that it hoped to be chosen as the supplier to ultimately power the plane.

Not to be outdone, Russia’s United Engine Corporation (UEC) has also been included in the list of the CR929’s potential suppliers. UEC is developing a turbofan engine which the manufacturer says would meet the needs of the CR929.



The specifications of the CRAIC CR929

Variants CR929-600
Capacity 258-280 (3-class seating)
261-291 (2-class seating)
405-440 (1-class seating)
Length 63.755 m (209.17 ft)
Wingspan 63.86 m (209.5 ft)
Height 17.9 m / 58.7 ft
Fuselage 5.92 m / 19.4 ft (width)
6.07 m / 19.9 ft (height)
Cabin max width 5.61 m / 18.4 ft
MTOW 245 t (540,000 lb)
Payload 48.83–50.4 t (107,700–111,100 lb)
Fuel capacity 103.7 t (229,000 lb)
Turbofans (x2) TBA
Thrust 78,000 lbf (347 kN)
Cruise Mach 0.85 (490 kn; 908 km/h)
Range 12,000 km / 6,480 nmi

In my opinion it looks like a cross breed of a A350 and Dreamliner.


Sources

Reuters
Wikipedia
CNBC
China Daily


I will continue to update this topic over time with current developments.

10 Likes

This looks more like the 787 than the A350 does! This is pretty much a carbon copy in terms of exterior design

6 Likes

Well in the cockpit it looks very similar to both.

image
image
Source 1
Source 2

1 Like

This is essentially a rip-off on the 787 - it can’t fly as far!

5 Likes

For comparison here is the 787

Model 787-8 787-9 787-10
Cockpit crew Two
Seating, 2-class 242: 24J @85" + 218Y @32" 290: 28J @85" + 262Y @32" 330: 32J @85" + 298Y @32"
Seating, 1-class max. 359, exit limit 381 max. 406, exit limit 420 max. 440, exit limit 440
Length 186 ft 1 in (56.72 m) 206 ft 1 in (62.81 m) 224 ft (68.28 m)
Wing[422] 9.59 aspect ratio, 4,058 sq ft (377 m2) area, 32.2° Wing sweep[423]
Wingspan[422] 197 ft 3 in (60.12 m) span, 246.9 in / 6.27 m mean chord.
Height[421] 55 ft 6 in (16.92 m) 55 ft 10 in (17.02 m)
Fuselage Cabin width: 18 ft 0 in (5.49 m)[424] External width: 18 ft 11 in (5.77 m), height: 19 ft 6 in (5.94 m)
Cargocapacity 4,826 ft³ /136.7 m³
28 LD3 or 9 (88×125) pallets 6,090 ft³ / 172.5 m³
36 LD3 or 11 (96×125) pallets 6,722 ft³ / 191.4 m³
40 LD3 or 13 (96×125) pallets
MTOW 502,500 lb / 227,930 kg 560,000 lb / 254,011 kg
Maximum Payload 90,500 lb / 43,318 kg 116,000 lb / 52,587 kg 126,300 lb / 57,277 kg
OEW 264,500 lb / 119,950 kg 284,000 lb / 128,850 kg 298,700 lb / 135,500 kg
Fuel capacity 33,340 US gal / 126,206 L
223,378 lb / 101,323 kg 33,384 US gal / 126,372 L
223,673 lb / 101,456 kg
Speed Max: Mach 0.90 (516 kn; 956 km/h);[422] Cruise: Mach 0.85 (488 kn; 903 km/h)
Range[a][260] 7,355 nmi (13,620 km) 7,635 nmi (14,140 km) 6,430 nmi (11,910 km)
Takeoff[b] 8,500 ft (2,600 m) 9,300 ft (2,800 m) 9,100 ft (2,800 m)
Ceiling 43,000 ft (13,100 m)[424]
Engines (×2) General Electric GEnx-1B or Rolls-Royce Trent 1000
Thrust (×2) 64,000 lbf (280 kN) 71,000 lbf (320 kN) 76,000 lbf (340 kN

From Wikipedia

2 Likes

Interesting that the CRAIC’s engines supposedly generate more thrust but can’t fly for nearly as far

3 Likes

i wonder if cockpit details / language will be written in Russian, Chinese or English lol

3 Likes

That’s because it holds an extra 50 passengers :)

9 Likes

Looks like a copy of a 787 and A350

Topic idea given to Qantas094 by me

2 Likes

I gotta admit, that cockpit looks very nice! It looks a bit like the B787 cockpit with a side stick lol!

3 Likes

I’m not a fan of it, my personal opinion.

5 Likes

So they cant come up with something original?

2 Likes

Neither am I, I meant it’s nice in terms of technology. Almost everything is a display!

1 Like

Just because something is aerodynamically efficient doesn’t mean it’s a copy. If you look back in time, all competing planes looked pretty much the same because they used the best technology at the time. Similarly, the technology currently shows that this design (that the A350, B787 and now this has) is the most efficient there is. They’re just using the available technology to make a competing plane. No one copied anyone ;)

7 Likes

That’s true. They’re practically basing their aircraft off designs that were successful! :)

1 Like

Yeah but why does everybody have to use the same design why not come up with something better then the last, its really just abunch of copy cats

1 Like

Because these designs were proved to be the most efficient and successful!

3 Likes

I wonder if IF will have it in 2027.
We could vote for it

1 Like

Because making planes which are too technologically advanced is bad for business.

Let’s say Boeing develops a plane which has brand new technology and has a stellar design which cuts fuel cost by 50%. They spent billions of dollars on its design. Obviously, Airbus and other companies would have to develop something which can compete with this aircraft, as their current fleet would be obsolete. They too invest billions into R&D to come up with a plane which is even better than Boeing’s. Then another company develops a plane better than both the Airbus’ and Boeing’s planes, once again investing billions into R&D. This cycle continues, where one company spends an unimaginable amount of money to outcompete the other, which does mean technological progress as a whole, but would be awful for business as new planes would have to be developed all the time (meaning huge costs for aircraft manufacturers).

Whereas, if the industry progressed slowly, they would not need to invest billions into R&D as often, because all companies are producing products similar to each other. If a company makes technological progress, it is usually in tiny steps so other manufacturers could catch up, otherwise it would lead to the spiral I described above.

An example of this is the new 737MAX and the A320NEO. Instead of producing brand new aircraft to satisfy the market, the manufacturers simply improve their already made designs, hence saving them a lot of money on R&D.

6 Likes

Airbus: We’re going to build A350’s

Boeing: We’re going to build B787’s

Craic: We’re just combine these two to compete.

ok, back to the topic. To be honest, we will see if the aircraft even fly. at the moment, there are lot issues with the engine designs which leads to delays for new aircraft designs like the B777X.

4 Likes