Couple Things

From a purely realism standpoint, I’d love that. But @THE-OP notes, that would drastically reduce traffic, as well as push the bounds of what’s possible in a mobile app. We have a hard time just getting some pilots to taxi to the right runway. While I would love for it to be a more realistic “Mike-Alpha, Left on Bravo, hold short of Victor”, I don’t see that as something that will be appearing anytime soon. Not that I wouldn’t love to see it be more realistic like that, along with you, but we have to also accept the limitations of a mobile platform, rather than a desktop platform, as well as how that would dampen traffic.

This wasn’t meant as an “ATC gripe”. I meant it informationally, because I think there are enough pilots on ES that don’t know what the two hold short lines as you exit a runway are for, and I wanted to make sure that everyone knew you need your plane at the second line, to ensure your tail is off the runway before switching to ground. (And if you’re talking realism, real Tower controllers do not handoff to ground until they have exited the plane from the runway.)

As far as flight plans. That’s something I think we’d all like to see. There currently isn’t a rule. But for those of you that fly without flight plans, please take two seconds to at the bare minimum indicate where you are headed. It makes handoff a lot easier if we know who to hand off to.

One more thing:

REMAINING IN THE PATTERN: This means you intend to fly circuits around the airport from which you are departing. If you intend to fly somewhere else, you are not “Remaining in the Pattern”. You are “Departing [East, West, etc.]”


@Tim_B… You get no argument from me Tim. I believe Expert Server should be for Quasi IF Experts. Just because they spend there time racking up numbers and hours to qualify is no excuse for not doing their Book/Home Work. I call the Peanut Pilots on Expert “Virgins”. The need to be busted (ghosted) repeatedly and often till they get the word, read and watch the tutorials, that’s what’ll bust their cherry. (Ghosts are like orgasms, they get your attention)
Gooday, MaxSez

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There’s a balance to be struck. There are pilots that need some assistance. And I really wish that the TS experience provided more of its intended function as a training ground. Unfortunately, too many don’t take it seriously, and it makes learning a hit-or-miss proposition.

I’m with you. Before I flew on the Expert server, I made sure I knew what each of the commands were. I read up on the parts of the pattern. I’m sure you were the same. Unfortunately, not every one takes that initiative. And here, again, we are stuck in a position where we want a realistic experience, but we also want people to enjoy the app and have fun, but still behave responsibly. That’s why I’d much rather post a few hints here or there, rather than singling out someone, or starting a flame war. Maybe there are pilots that are afraid to ask. Pilots that don’t take the initiative to learn as you or I would like, but maybe they see this and say “oh, okay” without having to go on a ghosting spree. Unfortunately, we can’t force people to do homework. There will always be people who take it seriously, like yourself, who are an asset to the flying community. But there will always be others who aren’t that incentivized for it. And, as much as we want it to be realistic, and do everything we can to make it such, we still want people to have fun. I’m just trying to get them to both have fun, and maybe learn a few things that they may not have known without singling anyone out or kicking them off the server.

As far as ghosting: Ghosting sprees will never happen. The IFATCs are held to a pretty high threshold for ghosting. If we ghosted everyone for every mistake, people would be immensely frustrated. Just look at it now: Even with the high threshold and multiple screenshots for every ghost and constant documentation of “this is what the pilot was doing, this is why he or she was ghosted”, we get the instant “Whad I do?” Forum post. I get where you’re coming from, but we really need to maintain a good baseline for ghosting. If a pilot makes a mistake but is willing to correct it without being ghosted, maybe they never make the mistake again. If our baseline is incredibly low, we take the sting out of ghosting. Sort of like if a parent screams at their kid for every single thing, the kid doesn’t really care anymore and doesn’t know what’s a “normal” bad thing and what’s an egregious one. I do see where you’re coming from, but that’s why we try our best to keep them to a minimum.

However, I will suggest, for those pilots that receive the “Check Help Pages” command: We really mean that. Please actually check the help pages. You’re being spared a ghost. The least you could do for us is investigate why. That way, you won’t be confused when you do the same thing next time and end up on the bench for a week.


@Tim_B… Your incredible intuitive and are well versed in modern child scicolgy obviously Tim. I came up in a different time and world where you were never rewarded for just being present and doing the minimum and if you whimpered and made excuses or passed the blame you gut put in hack! Or worse. The Ghost in the mind of a millennial is a form of corporal punishment! Note the number of 3+es that fly TR1 rather than the mean old Exp. Fear of Failing play a part plus a lack of self confidence is the hallmark of the incompetent IF Grade 3 who gets burned. I recognize $$$ FDS profits play a part. But the modern human condition can be ezly adjusted with a little tough love ask any recruit in the military ground forces, anybody can learn by rote even a millennial. MaxSez

@Airborne. Post withdrawn! Don’t let youth and inexperience cause you to hesitate. Take no prisoners, I’ve weathered every storm!! LOL. Max Sends

Thanks Max. I withrew my post not out of concern for you, but out of respect for the many very well written comments. I had posted before reading further down the thread and realized I wasn’t adding anything significant.


Jesus nothing like a Max simile to make my day.

I’ll weigh in- I barely get time to fly/control at all these days, but from what I see on expert it’s less trolling, more lack of technical knowledge. Would a knowledge test work? Maybe. Forcing tutorials does nothing for the ones who don’t want to learn, and is a pain for the ones who already know in a true sense. I think, as has beeen suggested by @Maxmustang already, a simple catalogue of all the great tutorials put together, both the videos made by Mark and Tyler, and some of the community made ones on this forum as well. Make it clearer the standards expected, through clear information.

The other think I think could help is a simple selection of a reason when controllers ghost; this could be just a few options, adding maybe 2 seconds to a ghost on the controller side, but helps the pilot (provided he wants to improve) to know what to look for.


“Interfering with traffic”, “Not following instructions”. Might be something for the development category, whatever it’s called on here [I’m not a forum expert, someone else I’m sure knows].

I think that would be a good addition. At least they’d have somewhere to start, instead of just “You have been ghosted by…”

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MaxSez: @IceBlue… Nice to see ya Blue! Your always a step ahead, the “Reason” drop down is an excellent first positive step suggested in the hours of BS posted on this “Problem”.
In a related issue let me make it clear; The. IFATC “Givem a Brake” convoluted PC Ghosting decision process is/was a Controller guilt trip from the get go and a morale buster as well. I’m a strong believer in “Trust & Confidence” and “Delegated Authority” for well trained, tested and competent subordinates. Only on rare occurrences should a Ghost gripe be elevated. It had to be said and the Pilots reading this need to have trust and confidence in the IFATC’s. There not your friends or a enemy, there “On Duty”

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I think you might be overstating my aversion to ghosting. I’m not saying we don’t ghost if they’re interfering with traffic. I’m saying that if you make a brief right turn before correcting left, we don’t need a hair trigger.

You’re conflating that with something else. We don’t have a “no ghosting” policy. Just a “don’t ghost for everything imaginable” policy. But if they’re defying instructions or ignoring commands or spamming or interfering with traffic, absolutely we ghost.

@Tim_B… My comment on the Ghosting Policy was not oriented to you or any individual. The comment is based on individual observation from the expert tarmac and close attention to Topics related to ATC operations by both Pilots and ATC’s of all stripes. Bottom line there is no question to reach IFATC rank your well qualified for the task. Your leadership and training regime is top notch. The rub it the matriculation of the Fledgling Pilot or Controller. They have no adult leadership or structured learning or procedural single source that points the way. At this point it’s ya pay your money and take your chance and from time to time a welcome aboard by some kindly peer who provides a tip or two! Bad JuJu! Success on IF is a challenge, some will never be up to it. Where’s the rule book/SOP.

Ok, no worries. Just didn’t want you to think I was advocating free reign.

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