The best example that I can readily think of is KSAN RWY 27. When you taxi down to 27 on the terminal side there’s the runway entry point, right there behind the hold short line. So the question/discussion is is this the correct point to enter the runway for takeoff? Or is this section perhaps designated as a displaced threshold for taxi, takeoff and rollout? I’m curious to see what everyone thinks.
Usually I enter right till the end, unless I can takeoff with less runway.
Usually, all planes at KSAN taxi all the way down to the end of the runway. The area that is NOT marked, is the displaced threshold. All planes can take off from it but cannot land on it. I hope this helps.
I believe, as others have said, that usually you would start your takeoff roll on that unmarked area, however landing there is not allowed. I think it has something to do with there being tall buildings in downtown San Diego, so that unmarked area would require a very rapid descent to touch down on. The displaced threshold allows full runway length for takeoff, but also allows approaching aircraft to clearly see the touchdown zone, which is at the position along the runway that most commercial airliners could safely descend to whilst also staying clear of the buildings.
That does make a lot of sense. All of these responses have so far. Without the characteristic markings of a displaced threshold I wasn’t sure. For me the hold short line was a clue to enter the runway right there by the touch down zone. Then of course you have the dilemma of one plane stopping at the hold short line and another going to the displaced threshold. Now who is first in line for tower? It only makes sense for tower to decide.
It’s funny when people hold short at an earlier entrance to try to cut in line. A good ground ATC would tell them “no intersection departures.”
Sometimes them people aren’t trying to cut they don’t need the full length of the runway so they take off from there.
hmmm its not always about that… why should a smaller aircraft taxi all the way to the top of the runway to use half of it? That is why intersection departures exist…
I often see heavies that do this though, who really should be taxiing to the end of the runway…
Agreed. For realism alone.
My instructor told me, even when flying 172s, to always take advantage of the full runway length no matter what cus you know what could happen. Especially at KSAN with a longish runway, if a single engine prop was to lose power, depending on how far down the runway they are, they could possibly put it back down on the runway. MrAviation101 had to do it when his Cessna didn’t have enough lifting power at altitude
Excellent point. I hadn’t thought of that either.
Yep but not all jets need 9000 in length runways to get off the ground this is my point, I understand props are the exception here in regards to engine failure.
For arguments sake, if I was in a Cessna 208, knowing I didn’t need the full length of runway to take off, can I hold short at an intersection rather than having to taxi all the way to the end?
EG: the other two hold short lines prior to the last in the pic
The issue of who taxis to the touchdown zone and who taxis to the start of the displaced threshold is most evident on the training server really, at KSAN (as you said). The only time people do taxi to the actual start of the runway appears to be when several other people do it first.
I think the problem is that most people (GA aircraft aside of course) are trying to enter at an intersection because they are impatient and don’t wish to join a queue at the end of the runway and not as a result of a through consideration of the take-off performance of their aircraft.
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In a heavy or a bigger plane.( 757 and up )I go to the end but in a smaller plane (A321, 737) I go to the end of the painted runway
@Flightfan84… MaxSez… Wiki & Google are user friendly. Must questions like your can be answer by a quick web search. One learns overtime that the more runway you have for takeoff the better. I recommend you use as much of the Displaced Overrun available to start your roll particularly with a fully loaded Trash Hauler or Air Truck! Here’s what Wiki says;
"A displaced threshold is a runway threshold located at a point other than the physical beginning or end of the runway. The portion of the runway so displaced may be used for takeoff but not for landing. Landing aircraft may use the displaced area on the opposite end for roll out. (Wiki).
MaxSez: au contraire fine Sir. Intersection take off/departure is permissible per the FAR. Pilots know the performance characteristics and the amount of runway and V’s needed to get it airborne and down range, as a Controller so should you! Controller & Pilots need to stop whining about line cutting. Routinely intersection departures expedite launch and recovery and should be encouraged during hi tempo evolutions.