I’m at TAPA controlling Tower and Ground come have some fun and do patterns or some island hopping
I may change to a free or more popular region
I changed to MDW (Chicago, IL) Using 31s
Are you still open? If you are I can probably come
I will come, 9V-SMB 😉
I’m coming, N-90D :)
I’m sorry for the peanuts
Overall, pretty good. Not too many issue that I picked up on. You did get busy at one point, and I didn’t get a clearance for touch and go. Not a big issue in my opinion, just gave me an opportunity to practice a go around. Sequencing seemed ok. I didn’t have to be sequenced for the runway that I was utilizing because I was the only one using the runway. I did request a departure to the north to Chicago Meigs (KCGX) to do a couple of patterns and only to request to come back inbound. You did give me the clear for the option without a pattern entry instruction. If I recall, a pattern entry instruction is need for aircraft inbound from another airport. Don’t quote me on that, but I do know one is needed. Anyways, excellent job at both airports TAPA and KMDW. Practice, practice, practice. Great job again! 😁
Yea I was getting kind of busy with 4+ in the pattern, two aircraft flying really close and some peanuts.
Okay, couple things:
Relatively innocuous, but just as an FYI: Originally, you gave me pushback, expect 31R. You then decided you wanted me on 31C, which is just fine. But, in that situation, you don’t really need to issue a correction. The ‘expect’ part of that command isn’t an actual taxi approval, it’s simply given to point me in the right direction.
Once you decided you wanted me to go to 31C, you should just wait until I request taxi, then instruct me to taxi to 31C. Both runways require me to head the same direction. You don’t need to correct to he pushback command. Just tell me where to taxi when I request it and it’ll take care of itself.
The only three times you need to indicate traffic direction are:
- At takeoff
- First pass on a runway (either as an inbound or a runway change)
- Changing pattern direction
If I’ve already taken off on the same runway remaining in the pattern or I have already done one touch and go on the runway from elsewhere, each subsequent pass, you should simply clear for the option, with no directional instruction necessary.
Several times, you told @SingaporeAirlines to not send superfluous messages. The problem was, they weren’t superfluous. I assume you would have sent me the same message when I reported position three times as well had you not known it was me. The problem was that you didn’t clear either of us, which is why both of us had to go around. If you clear someone and they have to go around, that clearance is null and void and a new sequence and clearance are necessary. Both of us declared go arounds because if we had landed it would have been without clearance.
I know how things are on TS, but, presuming pilots who know what they’re doing, when they report position, make sure you’ve cleared them before you tell them it was a superfluous message. If they report position, touch and go, check to make sure you’ve cleared for the option, not simply to land, before telling them off.
There are Expert Server pilots who still report final, but most of the time if your pattern guys are reporting, they’re waiting for clearance.
Every inbound aircraft (any that didn’t takeoff remaining in the pattern) require a pattern entry, even if that is “enter straight in” if they’re on final. The only time where “Inbound on the ILS” is valid is if they were actively vectored as such by an active approach frequency for your field. Any other time, simply ignore the erroneous use and issue a pattern entry.
Same goes for when inbound pilots just report position instead of requesting landing. Their position report doesn’t supercede your pattern entry instructions. They still need pattern entry, be it downwind, base or straight in.
Controlling Your Airspace
I know, I know, it’s TS. Pilots are what they are. But you still need to control as if there were some recourse. There was an inbound Southwest whom you had cleared for 31R. He just decided to move over in front of @SingaporeAirlines on 31C. When he reported his position on final for 31C, you said Roger. You needed to either get him to follow instructions for 31R, or send him around. He may not listen on TS, but you still need to get in the habit of controlling your airspace as if there were consequences, otherwise you’ll fall into bad habits.
That runway was SA’s to land on, but you let Southwest land without clearance and force the pilot actually cleared to go around.
Again, he was probably gonna do it anyway, but don’t say Roger. Give him a follow instructions or a go around.
Sorry, little long-winded. Thanks for the time. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice like I said earlier it was busy and TS pilots if it would just be 4-5 people on the same runway with no peanuts I would be more organized and not forget to clear you
Also that thing with pushback after I did it I realized it was a mistake and I shouldn’t have done that
Would “Continue inbound” be a suitable pattern instruction?
It’s not a pattern entry, no. It’s essentially a stall command. It’s not a clearance to land or a pattern entry, but more of an indication that one of those will follow. It’s very rarely used in IF. (Internationally, you could see it as kind of on parallel with “expect late landing clearance” I think, as they don’t clear with traffic on the runway.)
If you do choose to use it, though I can count on zero fingers the amount of times I have, you would still need to give a pattern entry or landing clearance after.
That kind of points out something which I think confuses some on IF.
When told to enter right downwind or enter right base or whatever, that doesn’t mean the pilot instantly turns that heading.
If the pilot is still 20 miles out, you can still say enter right downwind, runway 27. They would continue their flight inbound until such time as they would enter the downwind leg of the pattern at a 45 degree angle, etc.
Thanks, I’ve used it occasionally when I couldn’t think of a suitable pattern entry as they weren’t coming straight in but not base either, so I’d say that then “enter straight in” when 10-15NM out and sequence + clear as necessary
I think there may be some confusion over it as it is used/covered in one of the atc tutorials…however if I remember right ‘continue inbound’ was used in the tutorial to see how the planes shaped up for sequencing…definitely not to replace the pattern entry.
Right, a stall technique. You’re not quite sure how things will shape out, so you’re essentially telling the pilot, “keep coming, I’ll slot you somewhere shortly.”
Right, so as I said, pattern entry isn’t just telling them where they are, but where to enter the pattern. They could be flying base heading, but in the middle of the runway. Just because they’re flying the base heading doesn’t mean that’s where they should enter the pattern. Even if they’re say, 3 miles down the cone, the pattern entry can/should still be downwind.
Pattern entry is which leg to enter when they get to the pattern, not an immediate heading vector.
Roger, thanks for the help. If only some TS1 pilots knew this, entering downwind 50+ NM from the runway and are then unseqeuncable as they are passed by every inbound for the next 10 mins 😧
Thanks to everyone that came and wasn’t a troll and thanks @Tim_B for coming to these and helping me improve you have helped me a lot so far
I’m opening EDDL Tower and Ground