Everyone, come on down to FLL!
On my way!
Sorry cant! I’m in flight and in class. Will drop by next time!
I’ll come rn
@Aviation2929 please follow sequencing.
I did I saw @nativetoalaska was in front of me and I landed after him
@CaptainZac here is what I saw.
On landing I did not get told to exit runway. (I know I landed very short)
Overall you did great!
You were sequenced behind ALT+F4 after your go-around, but instead, you turned base around 1nm from the threshold. Even if the sequencing may not make sense, please follow them to the best of your ability.
I am sorry, I thought I was doing my right, thank you
First off, @Aviation2929, don’t turn base less than a mile from the threshold, unless you’re at Kai Tak.
@CaptainZac, this was very tunnel-visioned.
- Very late clearances. You should issue clearances to aircraft when they’re on crosswind or early downwind.
- Forgot to sequence me once @Aviation2929 entered the pattern.
- Forgot to call my base.
- Forgot to issue me a landing clearance.
- Unnecessary slow speed instruction, I was on a ten mile final while @Aviation2929 was less than a mile from the threshold.
- Should’ve issued me and @Aviation2929 traffic alerts, we crossed paths with less than 400 feet of clearance.
- Didn’t catch the F22 entering 10L while I was on short final.
Still better than what you get at LAX though, not bad for a start.
No, I did catch him. He was on ground frequency, and he didn’t know how to change
I am really sorry
All good. Learning for me and u
Nah it’s alright, just a pointer for future reference.
Thanks for opening up tonight, @CaptainZac. Here’s my feedback based on my observations.
- I called in for a transition at 02:41:19Z, and you gave me a transition at 1500ft at 02:41:28Z. Transitions should be airport elevation + 2500ft, so for KFLL, it would be 2565ft, rounded up to 3000ft. Each additional transition given must have a 500ft difference to maintain VFR separation rules. The lowest transition altitude you should’ve given today was 3000ft, and the highest, 5000ft, since your vertical airspace extends from SFC to 5000ft.
- Low transition for CC-NPR at 02:42:15Z. Refer to the above point about transition altitudes.
- Low transition for LYVA001 at 02:42:37Z. Refer to the above points.
- I called inbound for landing, but I wasn’t given a pattern entry instruction. All inbound aircraft without radar must receive a pattern entry. Aircraft given Radar Vectors or Flight Following by radar must also be given pattern entries.
- You sequenced me as number 2 to follow CC-NPR on final at 02:43:11Z, however, they were transitioning, not landing. Simply give me a pattern entry, and clear me to land as number 1, since I called inbound for landing.
- LYVA001 was also not given a pattern entry on their inbound at 02:43:28Z. Refer to point 4 regarding that. I would’ve sequenced me after him, since that was the most logical way to do it.
- You then resequenced me to follow LYVA001 who was already behind me at 02:44:39Z, and we were both on final. Not sure how that would’ve worked out, to be brutally honest with you. The go-around should’ve been for LYVA001 instead, as well.
- I should’ve been sequenced as number 4 at 02:46:33Z, since LYVA001 wasn’t past the threshold yet.
- No need to have LYVA001 expedite their exit at 02:47:28Z. N-HILD was on a 10nm final.
- I reported full-stop, but you still cleared me for the option at 02:57:29Z. If someone has reported full-stop, then you can clear them to land (provided they weren’t cleared for the option before they reported). Furthermore, you don’t need to include traffic directions for every clearance like you did today. You’ll only need a traffic direction on the option clearance for the initial clearance for inbound aircraft, and for when a plane changes to a new runway.
- No need to over-control aircraft regarding their speed and downwinds and whatnot. Once you sequence them, trust them to maintain separation.
- Sequence and clear people earlier, than later. Sequence on the crosswind turn, and clear on late crosswind/early downwind.
- You missed the go-around with me and LYVA001 at 02:59:54Z. Be pro-active in monitoring your airspace.
- Missed my runway exit.
There’s a few things to work on. Most of them relate to pattern entries, transitions, timeliness of clearances and sequences, and airspace awareness. You seem to have the sequencing down relatively well. Brush up on sections 3.3 and 3.4 of the ATC Manual, and you should see some improvements come your way. Best of luck.
As a general note (not targeted at anyone specifically): if you’re attending a tracking thread ATC session, please follow all ATC instructions and fly professionally. The controller is trying to learn the ropes, and flying around like it’s casual won’t help them. Thanks all!
Hello as you know I was N-HILD. Here’s my feedback.
Clearance was extremely late. The cleared for the option command should be given when turning crosswind or early downwind. A sequence should’ve been given first hand as I was #3 in the pattern
In addition to the statement above no need to say after the option make right traffic. I’ve already been cleared for right traffic. The only case you would say that is when it’s a runway change
My final time around you told me #2 traffic to follow on right downwind. @Z-Tube who was in front of me was on the base leg at that point. Also I was #3 in the pattern @ToasterStroodie had not crossed the threshold yet.
Again no need for after the option make right traffic as there had been no runway change
The please check assigned runway good catch. That was my fault I over shot the turn to final. My apologies for that
Good job noticing that it was necessary to give me the exit runway command. Although I never exited the runway it’s important that you still say disregard last message
Departure clearance was good
Overall not your best stuff. I get it first session so there were probably lots of nerves. Remember try to give a clearance/sequence early in the pattern. Also only give the after the option make x traffic if there entering a different runway or it’s there first time entering the runway. Keep practicing and you’ll get there. Good luck and I hope to come to future sessions.
Hey. As you know I was LYVA001, IFATC - Z-Tube. Below is feedback based on my observations from your session.
02:42:37: 1000ft was way too low for my transition. The rule of thumb is Airport Elevation + 2500ft. There was also an aircraft who requested a transition at the same time as me, therefore you must tack on another 500ft for vertical seperation (VFR). KFLL is 65ft. We will round that to 500ft (always round up and to the nearest 500). If you add 500ft to the rule of 2500ft AAL, you get 3000ft. If you add another 500ft for vertical seperation, you get 3500ft.
02:43:11: OMG-HAI was given a sequence after calling inbound, but no pattern entry. Remember, all inbound aircraft require a pattern instruction first. The only exception to this is if radar service is being provided and an ILS, GPS, or Visual approach was issued.
02:43:11: Expanding on the point above, you sequenced OMG-HAI as number two, following the traffic on final. Unfortunately, this was incorrect. CC-NPR was simply transitioning, not landing. A pattern entry and landing clearance was all that was needed.
02:43:28: Similar to above, I recieved a sequence and no pattern instruction. It also would’ve made more sense to put me before OMG-HAI as I was already established on base an OMG-HAI was on downwind.
02:44:39: You resequenced OMG-HAI to follow me, however we were both on final, and I was already following OMG-HAI. This should never happen.
02:45:05: You noticed that the spacing between me (LYVA001) and OMG-HAI wasn’t going to work, which is good, however, I should’ve received the go-around, not OMG-HAI.
02:46:01: My landing clearance was late (3nm final) and incorrect. I called in for landing, not touch and go, therefore I should not have received a pattern direction. This is something to look out for.
02:46:23: OMG-HAI received a sequencing as number three. This was incorrect as I was still on a short final. As a result, that would make OMG-HAI number four, following N-HILD and N473C.
02:47:02: N-HILD received clearance as number two, however I already passed the threshold, making him number one. There was also no need to issue him a pattern direction as he was already in the pattern.
02:47:28: Exit runway command was late, but you did catch it. However, there was no need to add “please expedite, traffic on base”. The traffic was on a 9nm final.
02:48:36: I left Tower to tune into Ground so I can request permission to taxi to Runway 10R. Everything looked fine on the ground.
02:48:50: I tuned back into Tower while holding short of Runway 10R. Any commands that I did not hear may have been addressed above.
02:49:55: You issued OMG-HAI a landing clearance that included a pattern direcion. Like I said earlier, this wasn’t needed as he was already in the pattern, and was issued a right traffic command when you called his go-around earlier.
02:52:30: You instructed me to hold short of Runway 10R. This was the correct thing to do, however, at 02:53:04, OMG-HAI (the traffic who was on short final) cleared the ramp I was holding short at, therefore you could’ve had me LUAW.
02:53:58: My takeoff clearance was correct, nice job!
02:55:26: You sequenced OMG-HAI as number two, traffic to follow is on final. The sequencing number was correct, however the traffic (N-HILD) was on still on right downwind, approaching right base.
02:57:29: OMG-HAI reported full stop, and was yet to receive landing clearance. As a result, there was no need to issue a cleared for the option landing, nor a pattern direction. A cleared to land command was all that was needed.
02:58:03: N-HILD recieved a sequence of number two, traffic to follow is on right downwind. While you were correct with the right downwind, he should’ve been number three. OMG-HAI was number one (final), I was number two (right downwind). That brings me to my next point…
02:53:58 - 02:58:47: From the moment I was cleared for takeoff to the moment I was cleared to land, I did not receive a sequence. If an aircraft is following another aircraft (with the exception of having an ILS or GPS approach with radar), a sequence is required. In addition to that, again, there was no need for a pattern direction as I was already in the pattern. My clearance was also super late. I was turning base as it was issued.
02:59:15: N-HILD was issued landing clearance, which was patially correct. He was number two since I was still on final, however, the pattern direction was not needed, since he was already in the pattern.
02:59:46: I had to issue a self go-around since there was traffic on the runway. Always be proactive in monitoring your airspace.
There are quite a few things to work on. Most of them relate to pattern entries, proper sequencing, transitions, timeliness of clearances and sequences, and airspace awareness. I feel that the fundamentals are there, but things need to be tuned.
I kindly ask that you brush up on sections 3.3 and 3.4 of the ATC Manual, which can be accessed by clicking on the bolded numbers. Once this is done, you should see some improvements. I look forward to helping you on this journey!
Please join if you can. I will be open for the next 45 minutes!