British Airways to start SCL (Santiago de Chile) operations Jan 2017

Be rather wary about the use of the word ‘fatigued’. Fatigue is the long term build up of disturbed sleep and rest patterns.

The flight crew on the above examples will, if the flight is the only flight rostered post adequate pre flight rest and followed by adequate post flight rest, be ‘tired’, thay should not be fatigued.

Operating ULH flights without the adequate number of flight crew leads to very long stretches at the controls and inadequate rest. Over time this leads to fatigue.

How do you know there will be an inadequate amount of crew members?

Because it’s currently planned for 3 flight crew whereas it should be 4.

Obviously all IMHO of course. ;)

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Very exciting , thanks for keeping tabs on the progress of this thread @nicochile2 !

You going to watch this beauty land at SCL ?

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Sadly I can’t … but I’ll post some pictures of the water cannon salute tomorrow!!

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This isn’t opinion, it is either fact that is has three flight crew or four flight crew. I would find it extremely surprising if this route operated with only three crew considering shorter BA long haul routes always operate with four. Are you sure of your information on this one?

EDIT: just to add that by way of contrast INN is three crewed by BA (possibly the only airline that does in to INN - U2 only have two) so the airline and the pilots at BA are not known to skimp on crew required.

EDIT2: also I understand that FDP limits under the EASA FTL are 16 hours with one additional flight crew and 17 with two when class 1 rest facilities are available (which they are on a BA 789). The block time is 14 hrs 35 mins outbound and 14hrs 20 mins inbound. I don’t specifically know what the report time is for BA long haul but I would be surprised if it was less than 1 hour before departure. If you operated with only three crew you would have less than 30 minutes buffer before crew started to run out of hours which would seem crazy from an operations pov.

The original plan was to operate the flight from Gatwick with a 777. This has subsequently changed to a 787 from Heathrow.

The block time of flight verses the duty time is a very flexible feast. There are currently 3 long haul flights operating all the time with 4 crew. Buenos Aires, Singapore and Kuala Lumpar. Sao Paulo operates 3 crew in the summer and 4 crew in the winter due time zones and duty hours. LIM is a hellishly long flight right up on the duty time and is operated with 3 crew.

The original issue was that there are not that many EASA rest facilities equipped 777-200’s due to some short sighted management procurement in the 1990’s.

Add to that that there is a long haul leisure agreement in place at Gatwick which flexes hours and routes allowing for reduced crews. Such an agreement does not exist at Heathrow.

So, going on the original assumptions not such a poor opinion after all.

INN is a restricted airfield requiring approach training prior to operating. Due to the size of the Airbus fleet at BA it is reasonable tyo expect that there aren’t too many ‘regulars’ to INN due to the complexity of the approach and go-around therefore they will have a TC with them.

There are no ‘heavy’ Short Haul sectors.

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Thanks for your reply. Regardless of the flight crew agreements it still would seem to come uncomfortably close to the EASA FTL to try and operate a route to SCL with only three crew, and even more problematic if attempted with a 777-200 without crew bunks. Anyway, it seems it is being operated with a 789 now and is four crewed.

I don’t think there is a requirement for a Captain and a TC for INN. BA have operated to INN for a number of years now from LGW and I would imagine there are sufficient trained LGW based pilots. Certainly I have seen the flights operated with one captain and two F/Os.

They have also recently started the route this winter from LHR. As the short haul LHR based pilots are not pooled with the LGW based ones it has involved quite a bit of training recently for LHR based pilots.

Certainly the LHR-INN I took a few weeks had two captains and a F/O but as you say this seems to be more a reflection of the small pool of LHR based pilots trained for INN atm. I think both captains were in the driving seats with the F/O in the jump seat, so I don’t think either captain was acting as a TC?

KLM is also a major one!

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image
Photo not mine

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