There seems to be quite a lot of contention in this place by pilots who have been given violations or have been ghosted by ATC. Often justified but occasionally not.
Why not have a similar system for pilots who can award ATC…I dunno a Donkey Award as a suggestion…for poor controlling, poor vectors, poor RT or generally being silly. Being asked to contact ground on short final could get a Donkey Award.
This wouldn’t exactly work too well. I can maybe see this happening in the training server but not on expert. At the end of the day, all of us are learning and we should all just talk to each other if we don’t get something :) . By talking to each other, I mean in a constructive way. Keep the tone positive :)
I’m not sure you understand how ghosts work. They are a last resort for someone who is not following instructions and being inconsiderate of others. Now there are some people who are ghosted because of a mistake on the controllers behalf, but they can be reversed. Sending them a PM and explaining is all that is required.
You also mention this “Donkey Award” as some way to shun controllers for making genuine mistakes. That’s not what a ghost is at all. Implementing this system just seems like a way to make fun of people who go through an extensive testing process to get where they are, which doesn’t seem fair.
Anyway, that’s just my opinion (which I’m sure is shared by many other IFATC members). Good day!
He only has to contact him if he doesn’t understand what he did wrong even after watching the tutorials… no need otherwise. Just wanted that to be clear.
Trust me demotion exists too on the controllers side, but lots don’t know about it because they’re not IFATC. it’s not because you don’t know about something that it doesn’t exist…
For vectors there is an unable reply. There is no reason to have one in other situations. Unless the ATC is making big mistakes why would you need to say unable? You wouldn’t. And ATC rarely make mistakes and often times realise straight away. For example sometimes my finger slips and I give the wrong RW. no need to say unable, I’ll have noticed not even a femtosecond later that something is wrong and I’ll correct myself.
Ok look that sounds pretty aggressive as an award and way of thinking… if you encounter a problem with atc, pm them. They’ll happily explain why they did what they did. What can seem as a mistake to you might actually be planned. If it is genuine bad service the controller will be reported and an adequate solution will be found. Retest, just a little discussion to remind him some procedures, whatever is deemed necessary. But I really want to point out that it’s not because you don’t know about a procedure that it isn’t there. There is a long procedure on how and why to ghost someone. I’m not going in any details, but I want you to know that we don’t ghost just for the fun of it. A ghost is always a last resort. Personally I find ghosting takes a lot of time, so simply to avoid loosing time and keep providing good service to the rest I just find a way to work around. Now if even like that the pilot interferes I don’t have any choice, I have to ghost. If someone abuses the ghosting system he is demoted. It is really taken seriously and there can even be a bit of a debate before ghosting someone.
Just adding onto @DiamondGaming4, that you can only get a total of 6 violation per session. Once you’ve received 6 in one session of playing, you’ll be kicked out of the server and receive a system ghost which by the way is absolutely not the same as ATC Ghost/Report.
Ok, so a violation and/or ghosting has immediate effect. Is there a way pilots can report ATC immediately? And by immediately I mean in game. Or do we go around and around again and again until he gets it right?
In real life I can say “unable” to anything ATC says. End of.
There is no way of immediately reporting a controller no. That doesn’t mean you go round and round until he gets it right. If there is clear evidence that he is uncapable of controlling he will be demoted. (Not just for a week by the way😉🙂)
Anyways that aside, it shouldn’t even happen to have that kind of a dilemma simply because IFATC are tested before they can start controlling. There are several tests and even more so for controllers on approach. If they don’t know the procedures, aren’t able to apply them, aren’t able to cope with stress they won’t even get to start controlling. So it should never happen you need to make a controller immediately stop
About go arounds… more often than not they are actually used because a pilot is not following instructions. Not because of the controller 😜
For example yesterday a pilot entered the RW for no reason so I had to give the inbound a go around.
The difference is, that instead of pilots who may not be able to tell the difference between a mistake and “I didn’t get what I want,” the policing is done by IFATC mods, who know the rules and regs, etc.
Demotions happen. Suspensions happen. Bans happen. But not at the hands of those that don’t know the standards. Every controller is subjected to QA. But by people like Tyler who know when controllers make mistake versus the pilot just didn’t get what he wants.
(Oh, and as an aside for those of you that think putting IFATC in your name is some sort of shield, we ghost IFATC all the same, so sticking that tag on there erroneously isn’t helping.)