Here’s the scenario: Spawned a Delta 787 at KSAN, filed the flight plan and requested pushback and taxi to RWY 27. Taxi approved. While en route the ground and tower control went offline and switched to unicom. I waited for the two jets in front of me to take off, and I announced my takeoff. I entered the runway, activated strobes, took off down the runway when KSAN tower came online. Immediately I was bombarded by the new controller to “not enter the runway without clearance”, “follow instructions”, and to “check help pages for help with ATC”. This type of behavior is annoying and inappropriate. There was seriously no interaction for us to have at this point other than a request for frequency change, therefore making all of these messages sent to me from the new controller completely irrelevant. Forgive me for the rant but there’s seriously no one else in the world who will listen. I’ve decided to not include the screen shot of the controller’s ID because I honestly don’t see it providing any assistance. If any mods want the info for any reason I’ll send it to you privately. Now the question, is this something that we just have to learn to deal with or is there a solution somewhere in the future? Rant over, clear skies and tail winds to you all!!
Was this on Training or Expert?
Was this experience in TS1?
@SkyHighGuys I was able to read some of your response prior to it being withdrawn. If I was in the wrong I will happily admit it. An Airbus A340 did come in right over my head, in my defense the Unicom was silent. There weren’t any aircraft communicating inbound. This did happen on training server one. I make every effort to obey every ATC instruction, but with Unicom everyone needs to communicate via the open band, that’s the whole point. Scanning left/right doesn’t really work for me In IF because graphic qualities have to be kept down so it doesn’t crash. Basically there wasn’t anything I could do about the inbound jet.
Flightfan I apologize I misread your post. You, as far as I can tell, did nothing wrong.
My first suggestion would be to fly expert server. Now if you can’t my second suggestion is to contact using Unicom and tell people you are taxiing and taking off. Just because ATC a are not onboard does not mean it’s okay to just taxi and takeoff. You mention it was silent, did you say anything prior to entering the runway?
I by no means am a accusing you of anything I’m just trying to figure out exactly what the cause may be
Yes I understand your questioning. For suggestion one I frequently fly on Expert but it’s nice to actually get to use ATC when you fly IF. Expert servers, maybe just my luck, are usually running 8% or less and I don’t frequently have controllers working. For suggestion two, after I requested taxi to RWY 27 to the primary controller they approved taxi to 27 and contact tower when ready. After that they signed off. I was on KSAN Unicom now. An Emirates flight left in front of me, another jet in front of me taxied off into oblivion. I waited for a few minutes and also announced I was holding short. With nothing happening and the frequency silent I announced takeoff and entered the runway at that time.
So you verbally (or via Unicom) announced here entering the runway? Did you see the inbound aircraft on radar?
Via Unicom, announced entering the runway for takeoff. I didn’t see the inbound on the radar, however I am guilty of not zooming out to look. That I can say for sure is my fault. Luckily the incoming Airbus flew over my 787 and landed ahead of me. I actually hadn’t started rolling when they passed overhead.
Okay so it looks like the inbound aircraft should have been able to see you and go around. So that was his fault and idea to just keep coming inbound for landing, that being said it is a good idea to check radar before entering a runway. Like you said you have to turn graphics down low so a visual sweep isn’t as helpful. That’s where the radar can come in handy!
So my suggestion is to utilize your radar during times like these. As far as the aircraft inbound there was nothing you could do about it. He chose to keep coming in. But also what do you expect from Ts1 😜
You’re correct. Normally I would share in the comedy behind TS1, then again I hate to see such examples of poor ATC being used in a training server especially. People go there to learn, pilots and ATC alike. During events like this I wish pilots had the option to send the “see help pages for help with ATC” to the controllers. Instead we have to clog up the forums. But like you said, what did I expect? No controllers on Expert is better than troll controllers on TS1 and 2. Thanks for letting me vent to you and work this out.
Hey not a problem! If you have any further questions feel free to drop me a pm. Have a great night and safe flying!
Not all the ATC that go on TS1 are training to become Expert ATC. ATC on TS1 is fairly open to non ATC training people. Honestly ignore this one incident. The ATC you came in contact with is most likely someone who does not know how to ATC and is not training.
That’s one of my concerns. The list of servers looks like this to me right now:
- Casual = free for all
- TS1 & 2 = Trolls
- Expert = If you make one single mistake you’re outta here.
At least you know the controllers won’t yell at you for silly reasons. There is more trust involved in expert and you can rely on the controllers so much more
I think that the true controller aspect is a bit lost in IF sometimes. This isn’t a police state. In my flight school we’re taught to visit ATC towers, mainly to meet the people face to face that we’re working with. ATC’s role is to accommodate air traffic and keep everyone safe, they’re by no means sky enforcers. Granted complaints can be filed with the FAA, but that’s also a two way street. Communication channels need to be equal between pilots and controllers. The current setup gives control all the things to say, and pilots only the small list of responses. “I’m sorry”, “Standby”, these just aren’t enough.
Just for the record that’s completely false. I’ve never ghosted a single pilot in ATC without some form of multiple warnings. I’m extreamly patient, and so were my fellow controllers.
That’s reassuring. Like I mentioned I’ve never had the experience of working with a controller, even with hours and hours logged on expert. When I had first started out and gained access to expert I joined that server and was immediately bombarded with a pushy ground/tower controller. They wouldn’t even let me get my flight plan in and they were sending the “follow instructions” and “seek help” messages. I didn’t go back to advanced for a long time. It’s good to hear that there’s tolerant controllers on expert now.
Look to be honest I’ve had the same thing before, and it was only because the controller was at some point or another misdirected. All controllers are taught to be patient, and that’s why we are more Likley to send you on a go around if a pilot enters the runway whilst your on SFC for example, because we don’t want to ghost them.