When flying into EDDL this evening the controller told me to maintain 220kts, which I did. But they later cleared me onto the ILS without giving me a reduced speed or the authorisation for free speed. Frustrating because there is no command to request a speed chAnge or to request a free speed. Maybe something that should be added into the command list.
When a controller issues a speed command he wants you to follow it, not to continue to agonize the controller with requests to change that speed.
All IFATC Controllers
Once you are established on the ILS you should be using speed at your discretion unless the ATC specifically requests you to maintain a certain speed after you have been cleared on ILS. For example if they clear you for ILS approach and then issue you maintain best forward speed you should operate at the fastest speed that is safe to operate in landing configuration. If lowest, operate at the lowest operating speed. If they say nothing after clearing you for ILS final, your final approach is at your discretion.
Is 220kts not a bit quick for an ILS on A319? I am not suggesting the command to “agonise” the controller. I was requesting the command to be added in case a controller perhaps forgets to issue a free speed clearance after setting a fairly high speed for an approach.
All IF Members looking to help improve the game :)
Completely understand that. My query is more directed at the speed a controller sets whilst you are getting established on the ILS
Yes, 220 is fast.
However, you don’t need to request speed reductions from the Tower controller. You should be slowing to your landing speed. No specific speed commands necessary.
This was the APP controller…I can’t reduce to my landing speed whilst getting established on the ILS if I have been told to maintain 220kts
When they clear you for the ILS Approach, your dialogue with Approach is over and you are handed off to tower.
In that case the APP controller should know that there are speed limits for the second tier of an airspace and try to accommodate to that.
Once you are out of the controllers control, the one that issued the speed request, example being handed off to tower, you can begin to set up landing config.
I’m by no means trying to point the finger here. All I’m saying is when this does happen again, it would be nice to have a command to request a “free speed” or a “speed change”
Unless that would agonise the controller. I don’t want to do that.
You’re missing the point. Once cleared for approach, there is no need to request a reduction in speed. It’s assumed that you are configuring for landing, and thus reducing speed accordingly.
Oh my god! Haha you are missing the point! Please read the full post. I am questioning if approaching an ILS at 220kts is too fast to intercept the glideslope and localiser but when you have been told to maintain that speed there is nothing you can do. You are not yet established so you are not cleared to reduce to your final approach speed.
I read the whole thing.
If you need to reduce speed to hit the cone (once cleared), do so.
Were you cleared after the maintain speed command? Yay or nay!
The approach controller was probably me, sorry for not sending you another speed instruction, you probably saw that it was very busy so I simply forgot about that also because I didn’t use the speed commands for everyone. I personally don’t expect pilots to maintain a once advised speed during intercept as long as I don’t send it on base (that would be the case if a pilot is flying at a ridiculous speed or/and if the intercept is quite a sharp turn, you probably were one of the guys which had to do a final turn of ~20° so it wouldn’t matter that much :)
Good question, if asked to “maintain 220 knots”. You will need to maintain that. If instructed to “maintain 220 knots or greater” you have discretion. If told “do no exceed 220 knots” you also have that discretion. Lesson learned for @Moritz_Babl I tend to use the don’t exceed to prevent this unless I need to speed them up, just remember to slow them back down. According to the boss a speed restriction isn’t void until 5 miles, or the final approach fix.
@Rambo: What Server? Max
@Chatta290… Appears to be TR-1. The Approach Controller was not IFATC! See comment by M Babl above. Don’t know why you guy post a Training Server Topic or comment on one. It’s a waste of time and effort.Max