ATC Questions Tracking Thread

How do you know at which altitude you can clear someone for transition?

I hope this explains it

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I do have that command - that’s one of the things I was referring to with

but ideally you would prevent that from happening in the first place. I’ve used it a few times, but it was because the weather deteriorated below VFR mins and I had to get planes back on the ground after the ATIS update with “no patterns” and “FPL Required”.

I did actually reference that command in a scenario similar to the one you brought up - If you have several aircraft in the pattern, and in-bounds start building, you’ll have to get some on the ground.

It’s just a simple calculation :

Transition altitude should be: elevation of airport+ pattern altitude of aircraft with regard to its type(Jet- 1500… props: 1000) +1000 to ensure separation between aircrafts in pattern.

So if a 737 requests transition for an airport with elevation of 500ft then you should clear him for transition at 500+1500+1000= 3000ft or above

And if it’s a cessna requesting transition then clear him for 2500ft or above since pattern alt of props is 1000ft.

Hope that helps!

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You should say them to cross the active runway not the closest runway to them :)

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transition altitude for both jets and ga should be 3000 ft in your scenario. as there can be a jet in pattern and ga requesting transition. so that will conflict with 1000ft minimum seperation. also transition altitude is subject to the highest terrain around the region. there should be minimum 1000ft seperation from terrain as well.

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That was an example. Your scenario is advanced😡😡. Too advanced old man😡

also to add transition should always be mid field and no where else. definitely not at the end of ILS cone.

😂 i’m still very young at heart. and it was nothing advanced. the basics we follow. 😋

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Wanted to make him understand that patterns for props and jet varies and so do transition. Its always airport elevation which we determine for transition ,command clearly say or above! Terrain thing should be done by approach. It has no relation with giving transition altitude.

ok. we can stop here now. :) I guess @Tim_B can give best advise here. :)

This may be what you’ll commonly hear, but there actually is a command to be used when resequencing after landing clearance (you can simply resequence if they haven’t received landing clearance.)

There is a command for Cancel Landing Clearance. When you use it, it takes you immediately to a re-sequencing menu, where you can give them their new sequence.

Once re-sequenced, clearance to land can be given again with the new number.

It ends up being heard by the pilot something like this:

“Delta 1983, number 2, cleared to land.”
“Delta 1983, cancel landing clearance, number 3, behind traffic on left downwind.”
“Delta 1983, number 3, cleared to land.”

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Where can this be found? 🤨

I’m unsure what you mean by this.

Obviously, transition altitude is given with aerodrome level in mind. So, if, say, you want to give 2500 or 3000 feet, that needs to be AAL, not MSL. (A transition altitude of 3000 feet at KDEN wouldn’t make much sense.)

Note: This is why many of you get tired of me telling you to descend to pattern altitude when you’re in pattern, but 3000 feet causes more than one issue, transitions being but one, when you fly patterns at that altitude. Patterns need to be flown at the proper pattern altitudes. It’s not just to annoy you.

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Pattern instructions–>Second Last option

Under pattern instructions, number 10:

When you click it, before anything gets sent to the pilot, it takes you straight to the sequencing menu:

There, you choose the number, then traffic to follow, just like normal, and then the entire cancel and resequence is sent out as one message.

Then you clear again, and it all adds up to something like this:

image

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Lol, literally using Diamond as the example. Pro move.

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When should a 360 command be used and when should a maintain slowest practical speed be used?

I look at it more of where not to use 360s, which would be on final. In that instance, go around should be issued. However, I generally wait to issue that until the aircraft which will cause the incursion is first in line, because a lot of pilots interpret GA as a 360, and we don’t want pilots making 360s on final.

Personally, I don’t give 360s to anyone in the pattern, but I believe the only explicitly-stated rule is on final.

Maintain slowest should be given when a pilot is going too fast for the traffic ahead, but is not already on short final. It should not be given to a pilot two miles out, for example. If they’re too fast at that point, utilize GA.

Also consider the plane to which you want to issue it. Telling a C172 to maintain slowest is a recipe for disaster, and you’ll just create a domino effect with all of the faster traffic behind them.

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Ok gotcha! so 360 are not suppose to be used on final and if slowest practical speed doesnt create more spacing I would just have to execute a go around?