Why are we informing players, that take their time to share feedback regarding unruly players, being given mixed and contradictory excuses? I had this happen to me on expert server, and of course nothing happened, I was told to ‘let it go’ and that for educational purposes we cannot inform others of violations after the fact, which is with all respect, ridiculous. I am following other users reporting the same issues and an ATC controller posts this-
Sorry but, can you clarify once and for all, that you let these behaviors slide, it is totally discretionary depending on ATC at the time or they are genuinely missed?
Not to be rude, but who are atc to assume if a player was annoyed by anothers bad and disrespectful behavior? How do i know when it happened to me, and you blamed it on ‘being missed’ was actually a controller that thought it didn’t bother me enough to give a violation?
This is becoming a bit of a farce to be honest, you either punish rude and stupid players or you do not. You either respect your players that follow the rules or you dont. Most of us could not care less about training server, when we play expert it is what we expect, and not that ATC are making snap judegements on things that ruin the entire game for most of us.
Im really considering just stopping my membership after 7 years, i feel kind of shoved aside like my money does not matter, you should not disregard these concerns for fears of losing memberships from the stupid rude players, you should be more concerned about losing memberships from the people that follow the rules and get shot down by your moderators and atc controllers.
I did not get a violation as I follow the rules and respect other players, my qualm is why do we NOT give violations to rude players that ruin respectful expert players experience? Also why ATC openly admit here, that they see these behaviors and seemingly just ignore them?
Personally, i partially agree and partially disagree. If a player is being blatantly and intentionally rude and disruptive or ignoring instructions then yes that should incur a penalty. But lets look objectively. Im a grade 5 regular user and i respect the rules and consider other players, and i still make mistakes sometimes. So if i make an honest mistake that didnt really affect anyone else do i immediately deserve to be slapped with a violation? To have that kind of police like ATC would itself create a negative experience. Room for discretion is also important
I see your point, but at the same time, why is that up to ATC to make the determination of it being an innocent accident or intentional? That is quite a call to make at the risk of infuriating other users.
Expert should be expert, I mean, you get a automated violation for flying 261 kts at 9999ft, that is pretty much ALWAYS an accident, yet they are issued without prejudice or leniency.
It should be the same case for mistakes in the expert server. I get things can be missed but to openly admit ignoring them is a bit of a slap in the face for those of us that report these issues quite frequently & the rude users that will keep doing it as they now know they can get away with it. Or appeal any violation as ‘an accident’.
IMO opinion mistakes can be overlooked in training but not in the expert, or else it kind of defeats the point.
Not that I’m disagreeing with you, but the situation is not as black and white as you make it seem. Many people are not aware that what they’re doing is inaccurate and could be bothersome if done in a high traffic density situation. Now don’t get me wrong, obviously in high traffic or busy situations, most IFATC controllers issue a single warning then report. But if the situation doesn’t call for it and the aircraft is not in close proximity to any other aircraft that like you said could find it bothersome, then a simple reference to the user guide and then DMing them after your session to educate them is better in the long run than simply issuing a level 2/3 violation that could make them want to quit. Not only that but a pilot could be ignorant to what they did wrong and continue to do said action. Obviously at the end of the day, it’s at the controller discretion, but this is my take on it. Now if they straight up refuse to follow instructions, that’s another story.
So you are proving my point really, you dont want to issue violations on the fear they may ‘quit’. That pretty much tells us what we need to know, doesn’t it? Just keep paying us and ‘deal with it’.
Why is everyone DEFENDING bad behavior? It is bizarre. We have a training server to make mistakes, we have an expert server purely for realism. Make the distinguishment between them clearer please as from these justifications, I am starting to learn there is not that much difference between the training/expert server…
Don’t put words in my mouth. I never stated I was afraid to issue violations. I simply said, it is better in the long run to educate the pilot committing the infraction. Second, we have nothing to do with Staff or the creators of the game. They aren’t saying “deal with it”. It really wouldn’t hurt to open your mind to a more optimistic approach. Not everybody knows everything about how flying works. I simply said, if the situation permits, turning it into a lesson rather than simply giving them a violation could be better in the long run. Especially with newer pilots. I’m not defending bad behavior. Yes we have a training server, but the training server isn’t as heavily enforced thus cannot convey the lesson the same way an IFATC member can or someone who knows how to fly properly. There is a very big difference between the Expert and Training. I’m sure you know what those differences are. But not everybody does. That being said, if you can’t take the fact that not everybody is perfect, the oh well. Tough luck. World isn’t black and white, there is no reason why we can’t turn a consequence into a lesson.
And just as an FYI, I am an IFATC controller. I have issued multiple level 2/3 violations.
What we need is an extra entry barrier to the Expert Server (not raising the grade requirements - but some sort of quiz/test) so it prevents pilots who have no idea how to fly properly and/or interact with ATC from accessing it.
I am not putting words in your mouth, that is literally what you said. Also, why it up to me, to educate your players? Do you think ATC admitting to ignoring issues is educational for them?
So you are basically saying it is up to the players that know how to use expert, to educate the ones that do not? Do we get a reduction in monthly membership costs for training your other users? I mean you wont even give me a trust level high enough to suggest a feature, but would you trust me enough to educate another user on their mistakes?
The reason it has to be more black and white is because this game costs actual money, if it was free i would deal with it. I pay for the expert server, if i can’t play expertly with other experts, expert server is useless to me. Then I can just play on training server and do what I want. Or, offer the app free and nobody will complain.
I’ll make this as simple as I can for you. I NEVER stated I was afraid to issue violations. I simply said, if the opportunity permits, it would be better to turn it into a learning opportunity. “Do you think ATC admitting to ignoring issues is educational for them?” Who said we ignore it? I said turn it into a lesson. Most if not all IFATC controllers would issue a CUG and then after their session DM the member and educate them. We’re not blatantly ignoring infractions. I also never said you’d have to educate them. Sorry if this is hard for you. But there are other people who like this community and want to help as much as they can. You clearly aren’t one of those people.
I’m sorry, but what does trust level have to do with any of this? If you want to help, then you’ll help. If you don’t, then don’t. You can always try to request a moderator to the scene of an infraction to try and report them. Your flight knowledge has nothing to do with your trust level. That’s something completely different and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
At this point, it seems like you won’t even try to understand. So I will no longer be replying to any of your comments. This topic is likely to be shut down in a couple hours anyways.
I think your point is
9999ft at 261 knots = violation
Rude behaviour on the expert server = no violation because of mistake
But hey there the 9999ft one is a automatic violation
