ATC Instruction Question: EIDW

When approaching the hold short line at 34 to depart 28L. Do you need to request permission to cross 34 or should you just request departure at 28L?

Often while running Ground/Tower here users request to cross 34, but my assumption is that they should just request clearance for take off?

Thanks for any feedback/help! :)
-Josh

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Cross runway first because the departing runway is in front of the other runway.

But there isn’t a hold short line after that - so would ATC issue a Cross runway? - then wait for a departure request, and if so where does the aircraft wait for clearance for departure?

You’re supposed to request permission to cross the runway. However, due to the windy conditions it doesn’t seem like 34 is in use. For that, request permission to cross whichever side of the runway is being used.


I also don't see why you added the #europe tag as it's not needed for a general question.

Then I guess - my question is if given permission to cross runway 16/34, etc. - where does the aircraft wait for departure clearance? Do they continue to hold at hold short line then request take off clearance if heading to 28L?

It seems that it would just be assumed that cross runway clearance would be assumed with take off clearance if taking of 28L.

I would just avoid that taxiway all together as giving them permission to cross means they can’t hold short of 28L. I would just give progressive taxi instructions to go down another taxiway if they went down that way.

34 and 28L share the same hold short bar and joining point at the thresholds. You do not need to request permission to cross 34 when requesting full length departure at 28L.

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Makes sense, I’ve never had to deal with a situation like this. Very interesting, that’s for sure.

Thanks, Mate. This is what I thought, it seemed illogical any other way. But the way users were interacting with that intersection, made me question my logic.

Thanks…

  • Josh

At the point that they get to that hold short line and request to cross 16/34 - I have just been clearing them for departure at 28L - ignoring the cross runway request. Would you say this is appropriate?

Yeah I would love to ignore it - but it is the most commonly used runway at Dublin (as per flight aware) - and it’s really the only way to interact with a 28L departure…

EIDW is my home airport haha. What you’re doing is correct. Irl takeoff clearance/LUAW allows them to cross runway 16/34. Irl runway 16/34 is also used as a taxiway! Aircraft will hold short of 28L while sitting on 34 as such:


So yep. What you’re doing is correct! Runway 16/34 is rarely used except for extreme crosswinds

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Yeah - it almost felt like a back taxi command (kinda) is what should be used for this runway - I was curious. Thanks for this. That’s super helpful.

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I’m really not sure. I’m guessing that only 1 of the 2 runways can be operational at a particular time in real life, so the end of one runway would be considered a taxiway so therefore ATC will clear you for departure. This is just my guess but if both runways are operational, ATC will only allow departures and approaches on the other sides of the runways or will allow only approaches on one runway and departures on the other.

I have controlled at EIDW(GTS) many times, whenever the similar situation as described by the OP here arises, ideally i would want the pilot to request for a departure if they want to depart from 28L, but there can be two situation that you might need to face.

  1. The aircraft is tuned into ground frequency and requests rwy crossing for 34 in order to depart from 28L, i usually ask them to contact tower and mostly by that time they realise that they need to ask directly for takeoff permission, if they still request rwy crossing i ask them for their intentions once again while telling them to hold short rwy34

  2. The second case is when the aircraft is on tower’s frequency and they ask for rwy crossing, you can do the same thing as suggested above tell them to hold short and then ask for their intentions again, that usually works

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Yeah - thanks for this mate.

Josh