Been enjoying ATC for a while now and just had a thought. Although a decent percentage of pilots respect ATC instructions on training server there is nothing more frustrating than spending half hour or more to develop patterns for arrivals and then having the odd few completely ignoring instructions which is obviously frustrating for pilots and controllers alike. I ask myself why radio in requests in the first place if they are going to just totally ignore instructions!
There are patient pilots who realise that the traffic is busy and adhere to instructions and are very patient in their approach, only to have another aircraft completely ignore procedures and cut across their flight path disrupting their approach and the hard work of the ATC.
While I understand that it’s a training server for pilots and ATC alike it’s still very annoying and frustrating to spend a long time controlling or flying to then be disrupted on final!
I do use the “do not follow flight plan, follow ATC instructions” option when needed and find that it sometimes has an affect but I get the feeling that some pilots think that because it’s a training server everybody that is ATC doesn’t know what they are doing or that there is a ‘lack of trust’ with ATC.
So I wondered whether there could be a grading system on training whereby pilots know there experience of the controller, maybe based on operations totals or the like. Or whether when an ATC controller reaches a certain grade or operations total they can then have an option to move the plane or ghost it temporarily to another part of the map. Or even an option to radio across a warning or something.
Ive got nearly 9,000 operations done on training, I by no means no it all and I’m learning all the time but I feel that I’m improving a lot. I’m learning and reading rules to make my experience and other pilots experience better if I can, I think that other pilots should know that your a serious ATC controller and to follow instructions. I’ve flown on expert server and it’s such a better experience when people follow procedures. I know it’s training for a reason and ATC will make mistakes too but there should be a way for pilots to know your level and it may just make them sit up and listen a bit more… a better experience for all!
Just a thought…
Just a heads up, sometimes when a pilot is ‘disobeying’ instructions it might not be intentional, especially on Training Server.
Sometimes the pilots just don’t know what the instruction means and they’re learning whilst flying on TS.
Also to add on I don’t think operations matter that much in IF, by this i mean they don’t define how good you are at ATC.
Training server as you can already tell it’s a place to learn and train, and not to ghost/make pilots afraid of flying, i agree with Declan here, most pilots that fly there are learning so they are yet to get a basic understanding of ATC.
Yes I get the point, very true. Although vectoring instructions i.e heading and altitude should be easy enough. I still see a lot of grade 3 and 4’s landing on runways where a plane is taking off from in the opposite direction so when they radio for an approach to a runway they request it still gets ignored when you change the runway or vector them off on another heading to go round.
Understand that total operations doesn’t mean that your good at ATC but maybe once you’ve hit a total there could be a simpler pre exam before expert for example whereby pilots would know that your somewhat qualified although maybe not fully, but that you have a level of experience at least.
The point of a training server is surely to help others improve and learn and therefore making the experience better for all.
Exactly right. Well said
It’s easy to get thousands of ops by simply sitting as ground and tower at EGLL, KLAX, or KJFK. Ops don’t prove anything, just experience.
We have to stop using the “They’re still learning” excuse every time. There is trollers and people who are learning. But we have to do something, not hide this fact by “They’re still learning.”
Just my opinion.
And I agree with OP. I am IFATC but I think it would be great. How would be this implemented though?
Enjoy your day
This is the same thing like with ATC operations. If you are Grade 3 or 4 it doesnt mean you are proffesional. I have seen many players with Grade 2 on Training server that were flying really proffesionally and were following all instructions.
Yes agree, I wasn’t suggesting it makes you a good controller the more operations you perform but the more experience certainly helps. My point was that once you get to a certain level of operations is their a way to be graded or identified as a more experienced controller so that training pilots will gain more trust in your instructions and thus be able to learn more quickly but more importantly enjoy the experience further.
I think that once you get to a certain level of operations as ATC on training you could have the option to qualify for a more established position by a simple times questions and answers exam or a small test. Once qualified It would then give you an option on your radio to broadcast that you are a “level 1 ATC controller” for example. Or “training level controller” perhaps. It would give people confidence in your instructions and would help others learn and enjoy it more. It was also be a confidence booster for controllers looking to step up to expert level?!
Maybe if you get trollers you could mark them in red so at least others looking at the map know that you’ve tried and can we can all see who they are? Just ideas…
We are all learning and training but after a 3 hour flight we would all like to have a less frustrating last 70nm to our journey!
If I hear you correctly, the driving factor behind your Post is that pilots on Training Server would be more inclined to follow instructions from an ATC that has a visible standing/rating.
Is that a correct conclusion?
If we want to grade ATC’s on Training, then a few questions come to my mind:
- on what basis would we rate ATCs. And who is the authority that would do this rating. Perhaps the TSATC team?
- How would Pilots on TS see the ATC rating
- Will it have an effect on the behaviour of TS pilots.
When I fly on TS, and I approach an airport and call inbound with Tower, as soon as I get a pattern entry instruction with a sequence, I go and sit up straight, check out the controllers name/ID and think “hey this is nice; what else does he know, and why is he not controlling on Expert”. I guess my point is: a good controller on TS stands out after one or two instructions and may well gain the respect of the well-willing pilots quickly, even without a visible rating.
I’m interested to hear the view from the TSATC team on this.
Yes that’s correct, my point is that once you get to a certain operations level you have the opportunity if you like, to be passed as a training ATC controller level by the team. It’s not suggesting you are expert but that you have a level of experience and understanding and it will help new and training pilots have more confidence in your instructions, it’s a training server for a reason and not the casual server so I think it needs a platform level before we all go off onto expert level. It would help controllers as well as pilots.
As I said once you have the level approval You will get the ability to notify pilots that you are a level 1 qualified controller or something like that, and maybe an option to “mark” pilots for bad flying rather than ghost.
I feel sorry for a grade 2 pilot who has been super patient and flown professionally all the way in only to be cut across because a pilot ignores a heading or altitude change. As a controller I want that pilot to know that I have done all I can to divert him/her from their path.
If you become a graded training controller you want pilots to feel more confident in you and your instructions and that you have their best interests to get them in safely.
Also when you look on the airport info and it shows the names of controllers it would state that you are level 1 (for example).
I am interested in most of these ideas. However I don’t expect TSATC to be able to have authority over the Training Server since everyone excluding IFATC is able to control on the server. TSATC is just a “club” and doesn’t plan on being a part of the Infinite Flight Group like IFATC unless we get the offer. But I don’t think the Infinite Flight Staff would like these ideas unless there would be another server created that would be catered towards amateur pilots and controllers. But I don’t think Infinite Flight wants to have another server at this time since it costs money.
Hello! There is a new ATC, IFVARB rated training server ATC service called TSATC. It is much better than normal TS ATC and enforces realism.
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