ATC - Command Taxi to Runway XXX shortened

As an example let’s take KJFK, when using the intersecting runways, lets say 22R/L for landings and 31R/L for take offs, now runway 31R/L is crossing runway 22R, now it would be great to tell planes to just taxi and hold short of the runway and not cross 22R: nobody would have to cross the landing runway and hold up traffic and planes would not need to taxi that long to 31R/L

Anybody with me on this? Could be very practical on big airports with intersecting runways.

15 Likes

I didnt understand

A very good idea!
I hear this pretty often at JFK.

I can see your point @Nick_Art and the advantages, but I suspect this is one of those things that most even on advanced wouldn’t understand sufficiently to know what to do. Bear in mind how difficult it is to get everyone to follow and understand the basis commands that are currently used.

I think it means to hold short on 31R without doing the whole length, crossing 22R

I believe 22R shortened means that 22R is used but not full length so you would expect to take-off probably from YA and not end up crossing any runways if coming from the central area. 31L shortened would be take-off from K or KE and so on.

I understand the advantage (as noted by @Nick_Art) being you can simultaneously have landings and take-offs from the intersecting runways, so take-offs from YA on 22R whilst having simultaneous landings on 13L.

2 Likes

https://www.faasafety.gov/SPANS/noticeView.aspx?nid=3380

3 Likes

It was the wish for better tools to control ground traffic which also is father of these posts:


2 Likes

Wouldn’t it just be easier to use 31L for take offs and 31R for landings, or 22R for landings and 22L for take offs? With 22L for take offs aircraft could use taxiway E to avoid crossing 22R.

1 Like

Good catch, @AR_AR. @Nick_Art, the purpose of “shortened” is not as you say it. Shortened is for when a runway is under maintenance or is otherwise unusable for its entire, published length.

It would be nice, however to have taxiway names and specify intersection departures, which is what you’re asking about.

1 Like

It actually wouldn’t be easier as with the use of only 22R and 22L planes would need to cross 22R coming from 22L. Also, it’s what they do in RL ;)


@CaptainHarlan But that’s exactly what we mean: Not use the full runway. In New York they use that term all the time even when the runway would be fully usable, just to not cross an i terdecting runway…

No they don’t. They use it all the time because they can’t afford to shut down an entire runway for a little maintenance on one end with how much traffic they have here. 😛

Any intersection departures are cleared with the name of the intersection (e.g. taxiway name), saying “shortened” is not enough.

Okay then, but since we don’t have taxiways names and maps in IF, why not just use the term shortened? I mean I bet many don’t even know taxiways have names… So it may be not that correct, but it would still be helpful!

Sometimes aircraft request takeoffs when they’re at an intersection, and I just use judgment as far as whether there appears to be enough runway for their aircraft. Without being able to specify taxiway names and taxi routes, there’s no effective way to do it. Everybody is going to interpret “shortened” a different way.