Approach Question

Quick question for our ATC folks in here. When being vectored by approach and approach gives you basically their last vector before handing you off to tower for example, Turn right heading 080, descend n maintain 2500 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS approach rwy 26 and you can clearly tell your a tad off on intercepting the localizer are you able to make heading adjustments to properly intercept?
I only ask because i’ve always done this but for the first time yesterday i was given a please follow instructions by approach while attempting to correct my heading to properly intercept the localizer. Just trying to do this correctly from now on. Thanks guys!

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Once you are established on the localiser you are able to line up with the runway

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Sounds good, thanks!

Hi, Jim.
Thanks for you question, It´s great to see soe pilots actually questioning what to do. :)

In your case, first of all, the ATC should clear you for the perfect intercept (On Expert at least). If the intercept is not quite there, and you won´t make it, I would call in for a missed approach, and then await further vectors from the controllers.

However, when controlling we can only see the numbers in “10´s” So when clearing it is possible we are 5 degrees off, which is why i can´t really see a reason to send a Please Follow Ins. unless, it is clear that the pilot is not following instructions.

If you don´t think you can make the approach, I would recommend you to call in for a Missed Approach, as that is what correctly should have been done, either by you, or by the controller.

Don´t hesitate to ask more questions. :D

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Well my first question would be what’s your idea of properly intercepting? 10-30 degrees off of runway heading is considered a perfect LOC intercept. 500 feet below the Glide slope after you intercept the LOC and establish on it is considered a perfect GS intercept. So how do you see a perfect intercept going?

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To add up from whatever Brandon said - If your intercept is less than 10 degrees or more than 30 degrees, the Controller should realize he made a mistake and call in for missed approach, or you should.

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The speed you are at will also help a lot with the intercept. Places like KASE where approach is nearly impossible, you can have guys going 300 knots because the intercept is above 10K feet. It’s a very tedious job as an approach controller, and the pilot could really help us out. Not every interest will be perfect because things like lag, speed, or delay can cause a pilot or a controller miss the approach. So when getting vectors, always be alert because if you don’t get back to us right away or arent aware that we cleared you, you may enjoy another 30 minute ride through the vector train.

image
Excuse my horrible art skills but the red line was approximately the flight path I was on for 34L. The white line was approximately the heading I turned to to intercept for 34L.

Ah training server I’m assuming?

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No was expert, like i said the lines are approximate. I was trying to intercept into the ILS box. Not a big deal just don’t want to do something I shouldn’t is all :)

Well as long as the off set is within 10-30 degrees from runway heading just go with it. As long as the altitude is compensated for there is no issue. If you miss it just go missed that’s what it’s there for. Don’t deviate from an assignment. I’ll also add if you have a tendency to want to deviate from the assigned heading turn the map off.

(Edited I didn’t see the cone prior the vector you where on would have been a perfect intercept. Learn how to fly an ILS approach the cone means nothing)

Actually, are you saying the red line was the heading given by approach?

If so, the intent was most likely to have you intercept the localizer at the fix just outside the cone.

The localizer indicating horizontal deviation from the centerline, it extends further than the cone. That fix is on the localizer.

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Yes the red line was the vector given which would have been a proper intecept, and he turned towards the cone.

Definitely turn the map off and start using the HUD for your instrument approaches.

Thanks for the answers, i’ll make sure to turn the map off from now on. I apologize for being a dullard and not knowing how to properly fly an ILS approach.

No worries man we see it all the time. Use the instruments and you’ll be golden. 👍

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Here’s my answer: try to stay as close to the intercept heading vector as possible. However, if the altitude is too high, then feel free to descend while following. the glide slope. The red cone is just there for reference, not all ils appraches will intercept the localizer at the top of the cone.

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Flew with you the other night in Singapore with the IFAE crew, followed you into WMKK. Was a pleasure flying with you :)

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