A PSA from the IFVARB

Live VA
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Hi everyone,

We have noticed an uptick in community requests for IFVARB intervention. We appreciate our member’s enthusiasm in ensuring compliance and we will continue to review reports as they come in. With that said, we would like to remind members that the IFVARB should only be involved when it comes to serious issues and we do not have the capacity to mediate petty disputes.

95% of the issues we receive can usually be resolved informally between members and VAs/VOs. VAs and VOs have the authority to remove members as they see fit.

When making a report, ensure that your report meets all of the following criteria:

  • The offense is serious and is in breach of the IFVARB Regulations and/or IFC Regulations.
  • The report is well-structured with sections so we can clearly understand your grievance.
  • You have exhausted all other avenues of resolution.

We have also noticed an increase in members threatening IFVARB sanctions against other members. We would like to remind members that they do not have the authority to impose IFVARB sanctions and our names should not be used to threaten other members.

Finally, we would like to remind members that Virtual Airlines and Virtual Organizations are allowed a significant level of flexibility in onboarding and removal decisions. We will make an attempt to understand the situation, but not intervene in the majority of cases given the contentious nature of such disputes often disrupting the working relationship between the VA/VO and the user.

As always, if you have any questions, concerns, or comments, please do not hesitate to reach out below or message us @IFVARB.

Thanks,
Danman
On behalf of the IFVARB Admins

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Thanks, @Danman. Haven’t really dealt with many of such scenarios within, but always a good refresher.

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It really annoys me that VA’s have so much authority on who to accept/deny. This is suppost to be a welcoming community. I’ve seen a lot of people getting banned from VA’s for petty reasons. I don’t see how this is welcoming in any way. A VA should only be able to ban users for extreme reasons (trolling, permanently banned from IFC, etc).

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Hello Phillippe, if you have a specific concern regarding an individual VA, it’s best if you contact the leadership team at the specific VA, or if it’s a serious issue that requires IFVARB action as mentioned in the original post, contact the IFVARB (only if necessary). VAs/VOs retain the right to remove someone from the organization at any time. Obviously, someone wouldn’t be removed for no reason at all.

Thanks!

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I’ve noticed some inconsistencies when it comes to IFVARB taking action against incidents.

Recently, I created a report about a staff member of a virtual airline using vulgar racism on another platform. However, little to no punishment was given to the staff member by the IFVARB, moderators, or the VA itself. I followed everything directed on this topic and I am certain this met the criteria for a “serious incident.”

The incident is in breach of both policies. Specifically, the third IFVARB policy stating the following was breached:

  • VAs, along with their leaders, their staff, and their members are all expected to act in a respectable and reasonable manner both within the IFC and in other environments. Keep in mind you’re both representing the IFC and the Airline you fly for, so be respectful!

The incident, as stated before, occurred on another platform. This was a primary reason for no action being taken… even though he violated an IFVARB policy? Odd. Moreover, the following IFC policies were violated:

  • Be civil. Don’t post anything that a reasonable person would consider offensive, abusive, or hate speech.
  • Keep it clean. Don’t post anything obscene or sexually explicit.

Because of this, the incident qualifies as serious, and certainly is not a “petty dispute.”

This was completed in my report.

This was the only avenue of resolution. Something had to be done and this was the only way of doing it.

No sane person could possibly think this incident is not serious. No sane person could let this slip. Racism is a major and serious offense and the correct punishment should be issued. But here we are… with no punishment. This person is still staff at the particular virtual airline.

I mean no harm to the IFVARB or the moderators involved, that being said, major issues such as this can not be ignored, and the user can not be let go without punishment. Some incidents may result in the IFVARB quickly taking action. This one, even though it met the qualifications, did not result in that. Why?

Racism is a serious offense. Never let a racist person, if I dare compare them to a civilized human, get away with their actions. Therefore, consistent IFVARB intervention is necessary, and I, along with many others, would like to see it. Thank you.

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Adding on to Alex, the timing of this post, days after we reported it is quite suspicious indeed, as well as IFVARB staff not responding or even caring to acknowledge it.

If your going to moderate accordingly, do it right. Actually listen instead of not even replying to a Racial Report and continuing to make a topic about how we should stop with unnecessary reports. It’s been 4 days guys. You guys can do better. Really disappointed knowing you guys are “leaders” when you can’t even bother to read a report with urgency for moderation. If I can’t rely on you guys to do this, who can I? Mods says you guys do it, and you guys won’t even read it. Might just have to make a topic about it to show the report so the community can take action itself whether it being a call for moderation or nothing, since I know the community would actually read and acknowledge it.

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Whether you choose to believe it or not… The IFVARB Admin Team is working as hard as they can to Insure the policies and regulations are being upheld to the best of their abilities.

Everything has a level of severity. Some things need immediate intervention; some require admin discussion; some require moderation discussion; and some stuff can be handled internally by the discussion of the VA/VO Staff. When you make a report, you truly never know the steps that might be taken to investigate the claim - for all you know, it could be an active discussion between the admin team and the moderation team. Don’t jump to the conclusion that ‘they don’t care‘ or are ‘ignoring you’.

If you have a claim that you know violates a regulation, always reach out to the Admin Team. Feel free to invite the moderation team on it as well if you feel it violates general Infinite Flight Community guidelines! They are in their positions to help you!

Never feel that you can’t go to the admin team if you need something. They are 3 very friendly and very hardworking people and they care very much about your online safety and concerns.

Continue to express those concerns but just have a double advocacy mindset. You just truly don’t know what’s going on ‘behind the scenes’

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So what severity would a VA being racist, and them trying to cover it up be? Wait almost a week before acknowledging it? Even a dumb canned reply like what mods do with flags is far more than enough to let us know they read our post.

Bud, doesn’t take 4 days for an admin team of 4 to write a small message to acknowledge and they will be investigating.

We have IFVARB and Mods. In this case, the only people that’s actually being useful at this point are the mods since they know what they did was wrong and would moderate, but decided to leave it up to IFVARB which we don’t even know if they seen the message.

Not sure about that, since when I asked for them to read it, an admin straight up said no, they will not read it.

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It’s an admin team of 3, FYI. They have lives outside of IFVARB & some matters will take time. I know you might be disappointed for not getting a reply, but I would rather have taken this to a PM with a staff member or specific IFVARB member.

You could also have used Slack to contact them if it was so urgent. Then you could have redirected them to the PM.

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I’d highly advise you against using names. That’s only going to cause IFVARB to push your matter away or get you into some trouble.

You can always check if they saw it by seeing the number of views in the PM. I’d also like to point out that writing “dumb canned reply like what mods do with flags” is quite offensive. Mods have to close so many unnecessary topics because we don’t follow the guidelines of the category or IFC. They are fulfilling their responsibilities & it may require the use of said “canned replies”. The mods try to do what is best for the IFC, not your will.

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Thanks @Danman for addressing these topics!! This was needed!

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Hi everyone, I appreciate the comments you guys have left and I hope to clear up some confusion without going too far into the specifics of the issues to protect the privacy of those involved. I hope the insights will be useful and be able to address some of the concerns you have.

“Welcoming” can only go so far. If a pilot is removed from a VA/VO for reasons they disagree with, it may be best for the pilot to seek out another VA/VO as it is clear that they disagree with how the VA/VO is run. We typically do not intervene unless there are gross deviances from HR best practices.

Hi @anon79257371, I completely agree with the severity of the issue you presented to us and we appreciate you speaking out. We do not condone racism in any forms and have taken decisive action against users who have made racist comments within the IFC and VA Communication channels.

We are currently in the process of re-defining where our authority begins and ends in collaboration with the IFC moderation team. We are also having preliminary discussions on redefining the roles the watchlist and blacklist play in terms of disciplinary implications. It is not sustainable for us to chase a trail of evidence across the internet all over other platforms. The rules as set out in the terms may see some changes in the near future. The issue that you raised would be out-of-scope for us as it did not take place where we would look into.

With that said, we were concerned by the issue you raised and are exploring options to review problematic out-of-scope issues going forward. I urge you to hold us accountable and check-in with us periodically through either DM or the IFVARB Feedback and Questions Thread for updates.

Hi @anon41771314,

First of all, let me assure you that we are not actively attempting to engage in any sort of cover-up. We did review the issue as presented 4 days ago. Given that the issue was addressed by the moderation team, we did not feel the need to repeat what the moderators said regarding jurisdiction. As noted above, I encourage you to hold us accountable as we continue our work in redefining our roles in out-of-scope issues.

That is quite concerning to me, can you please DM the messages in question so we can look into it?

I hope this answers some of the concerns you guys may have had about actions taken (or lack thereof).

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