8/7 questions

#1

Today,I am fly to wsss,in I CALL TOWER ATC IN 22NM,I inbound to landing,because have not any rader,sothat i have not choose any approach(like ils,gps),and then,atc send’hog 11,enter downwind runway 20r’,sothat i left me fpl,also have two aircraft in my back,and then i angle in 220,i said’hog 11,is on right downwind runway 20R’,he said’hog 11,roger’,in that he send number 1,clear for the option to other aircraft,and then he have not any massage like turn rihht base or countinue in own discretion,and then left his airspace,and then i am turn right heading 180,and i again his space,and number to landing.SO then you think the problem of my and other two aircraft out space is my problem,atc problem,or both?

In ATC Manual of ground or tower,have not say that tower have responsibility to countince send pattern instruction,but it also do same rader work,in ATC Manual 6.5.3,said’ If you do issue a vector and/or altitude assignment, once the risk of conflict is no longer present, you should let the pilot know by sending “Continue as Filed” and/or “Altitude at your Discretion” respectively ( see 6.5.5 below for exceptions) . “Resume Own Navigation” should be used instead of “Continue as Filed” if the aircraft is no longer expected to return to their flight plan or does not have a flight plan filed.’,sothat,he have issue a vector and/or altitude assignment?

Hope to express your opinion
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#2

As for your 1st question, I suggest you PM the controller on the forum and he/she will let you know why.

As for 2nd question, tower has no ability to vectors Plane in IF, also means they can’t send you CAF or Resume Own Navigation. Tower controller could just send you pattern entry and sequence, then clearance. Your question here is Radar, not a Tower work

3 Likes
#3

1st i have call him,but he think is not his problem,i just want to know the problem,and correct it in next time,we are also study.
2nd oh?yes?

#4

Chris, I am the controller he actually thought I need to tell him to turn base instead of turning base himself.
I told him to enter Right DW instead of telling him to Extend DW
Secondly there is 3 traffic on DW and 2 at the outside and all of them are really close, I have no idea who to sequence first.
Sorry for late sequences it’s my fault and I am trying to improve it.

#5

In the context that you’ve posted, I don’t see any issue with the communication in the first paragraph. Once you are given a pattern entry, you are expected to fly the pattern as you wish, especially so since you are number 1 in the pattern. There is no need to prompt you to turn base, or continue as filed, as once you’re in the pattern, you are expected to continue until you land on the runway.

In response to your second question that you have, tower is not able to give you commands such as to “continue as filed” or “altitude at your discretion” purely because while you are on the tower frequency, you are flying under VFR conditions. As such, separation that is maintained should be on a “see and avoid” basis. Not to mention, while on tower frequency, these commands are not available; they are only used by radar controllers.

4 Likes
#6

but i always have pattern in instruction in es with have not rader and i am instruction in pattern not follow fpl

#7

I have told you to Enter Right DW instead of telling you to extend DW

#8

Pattern entires are always supposed to be used when radar is not present.

1 Like
#9

pattern it ifr?and he have send clear to option to other airplane

#10

Tower Frequency doesn’t have Continue as Filed and Altitude Instructions

#11

yes,enter right base

#12

Most of the time you are interacting with ATC your fpl goes out the window, you are expected to deviate from your fpl when prompted by ATC, although it might suck it’s for the sake of efficiency, at first I hated being vectored but then it grew on me, and now I love I’m being vectored through a busy airspace!

#13

That is Remaining in Pattern

#14

@LT_300kts You should know, it’s your job to turn Base/Final as for you were the first plane in the pattern, and below is not right, Pattern entry are not expected to send every times when you turning legs of pattern

Again, ATC Manual Section 6’s tittle is Radar, so the things in it is not a Tower work

#15

Patterns are to be flown under VFR conditions. And yes, you need to be cleared before landing. You will either be cleared for the option or cleared for landing, depending on what you requested for when you called inbound at first.

#16

i have not clear to landing or option

#17

sothat why have turn base in atc choose?

#18

That is for Extend Downwind, I will call your base

#19

That is when the ATC told you to extend your downwind, then he will have to say “turn base” when a extend downwind is no longer necessary.

If there wasn’t any extend downwind command you should’ve turned base on your own.

5 Likes
#20

so i dont know he want turn base in what space