787 Angle of Attack

The 787 appears to have a higher cruise angle of attack than it should:

image

Anyone else experience this? I know they’re designed to fly with a slight nose up attitude but this is around +4-5 degrees which seems excessive.

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Nope thats about right for a 787 especially with cargo. Doesnt seems right, but its actually normal.

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Have you checked your Weight. You may be too heavy for that altitude, that is if you didn’t step climb.

But it looks right from perspective, it’s supposed to pitch up slightly more than pother commercial jets.
So I don’t think that having a less heavy plane will much of a difference but you could always try out.

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The best way to keep it at 5° is to put 80-90% of your cargo in the front

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Exactly what I always do ;)

I most of the time have little more cargo in the front of the plane than the back, but it depends on. Sometimes I just tap somewhere and let it randomize as well from time to time :P

Standard procedures are usually mail and freight in the front and bags in the back and bulk

You’re also not calibrated correctly. Adjust your trim 😉

Do you have a source for that? Not trying to be difficult, I just haven’t been able to find data on it’s cruise aoa myself. Why is it so much higher than all the other aircraft?

Wouldn’t that be strange in the cabin? I.e wouldn’t the floor line is also be at 4-5 degrees? That seems like it would be very noticeable. I’ve only flown on 777s and A350s irl so I’m not sure if that’s just how it is on the 787.

Here’s a picture from its test flight that I assume is a normal aoa:

Of course one picture is hardly conclusive but this seems pretty reasonable^

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If you adjust your trim while the autopilot is holding altitude your aoa won’t change.

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You can adjust it after taking off and during climb. I’ve flown the 787s and they’ve been level.

I’m flying the 787 right now at FL400, it’s pitching just as much as yours and but no problem flying.

Also I’ve flown the plane IRL as a passenger and I didn’t notice that it tilted too much. You could feel the that it was pitching up a little but that’s is noticeable on most planes more or less if

FL350 is a pretty reasonable initial cruise altitude for the 787 irl though.

Even for ULH it’s starting there^

The 2 important things that you should do are: Cruise at M 0.85 and don’t be too heavy at a certain altitude (you can tell by your flight path vector and your nose whether are they close or one is obviously above another)

That picture you took from the internet is an artist impression. Don’t use that as a comparison. This isn’t real life flying (This is IF). You can’t compare anyway as the plane’s physics and performance is determined by FDS. In addition, IF has its own limitations as well.

Why the 787 rapidly pitches up as soon as I change ALT? Because I know it’s the performance issue. It’s unrealistic because if there’re passengers in it they would feel sick! But again this is IF. If you want the 787 to be more similar than how the real 787 flies then you might have to wait for a major update.

True, that’s why I said that it would matter much if you descended as I noticed that IRL QF9 & 10 flies initially at FL350.

That picture you uploaded, real or not, most likely has no cargo in it, it’s just for advertising purposes.

There are four main factors that determine your aoa in IF:

  1. Airspeed, higher means lower aoa.
  2. Altitude, higher means higher aoa.
  3. Weight, heavier means higher aoa.
  4. Configuration, lowering flaps lowers aoa, even at high altitude.

You can alter these in a bunch of ways to obtain a realistic aoa. However, with normal values for 1, 2 and 3 and flaps clean, it’s nowhere near level.

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I don’t understand your point, you can also adjust the trim in cruise. It won’t change your aoa, I recommend trying it yourself. Can you explain the configuration that resulted in level flight?

See my initial photo for my cruise speed and altitude (both were perfectly reasonable). A couple things I have to mention.

  1. That photo is real, it was taken from the chase plane during the 787-10 test flight.

  2. I completely understand that any sim has limitations. This topic is about the realism of the cruise aoa of the 787. You’re basically saying (and correct me if I am wrong) that we shouldn’t expect the 787 to have a realistic cruise aoa? I know it would require an update to get fixed so I’m not expecting it to be. But fundamentally this should be a very easy problem to solve.

My main concern is that the A350, if/when we get it, ends up with a similar issue.

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Yes it’s probably pretty light, and is at a lower altitude than normal. However I imagine that aoa is very close typical cruise. Or is the floor at negative pitch in that picture o.O

Can someone please address the floor issue? I still don’t understand how it feels normal in the cabin…

Yes, don’t expect too much about realism here in IF. The last 2 paragraphs of my earlier post was an explanation on why the aoa problem is still there even after working on the 2 steps I’ve mentioned in the first paragraph (should it still be there but I doubt so).

As for the A350, nobody knows when it will come but until then, there’s no point being concerned.